Ultra or Amp Ultra

[AntE]

Hi, looking at an Ultra for my office but cannot decide between Ultra with active speakers or Amp Ultra with passive speakers.
Have a decent hifi set up at home so appreciate the wormhole I’m going down lol but looking to use it for background streaming while I work.
Any advice?

 

[Aquaman]

Given that the Ultra has RCA outputs only, no XLR, I would not go for active speakers. The distance may easily exceed what is tollerable with RCA connections.

 

[hgo58]

Hi, looking at an Ultra for my office but cannot decide between Ultra with active speakers or Amp Ultra with passive speakers.
Have a decent hifi set up at home so appreciate the wormhole I’m going down lol but looking to use it for background streaming while I work.
Any advice?

If the active speakers have digital (SPDIF) input, then get the WiiM Ultra else get the WiiM Amp Ultra and passive speakers.

Don't use RCA output to analog input on active speakers, if you want to avoid noise from the (low voltage) connection to the speakers.

 

[dominikz]

Hi, looking at an Ultra for my office but cannot decide between Ultra with active speakers or Amp Ultra with passive speakers.
Have a decent hifi set up at home so appreciate the wormhole I’m going down lol but looking to use it for background streaming while I work.
Any advice?

Welcome!

Note that the budget that you set out for the speakers might influence the decision.

All else being equal, for music listening and multimedia at a desk (i.e. ultra-nearfield) I'd personally go with the Amp Ultra + passive speakers (ideally coaxial speakers like KEF LS50 Meta or KEF Q1 Meta, depending on budget). The reasons are:

• Only one power socket needed, and less cable-clutter overall.
• Only one device to turn on/off.
• Shouldn't have audible hiss. On the other hand, many active speakers have some hiss which can be audible from a close listening distance.

Note that this wouldn't necessarily be a suitable setup if you e.g. plan to do music production and recording on a PC, since WiiM streamers have some propagation latency making them unsuitable for real-time/zero-latency monitoring like you need when e.g. playing guitar through an amp sim plugin. For this use case an audio interface + powered speakers would be a better choice.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

May I offer an alernative?

The Ultra (UK prices) is £350. The Amp Ultra is £500, so £150 extra.

I've recently posted elsewhere about the new Topping Mini300. It looks like a rebrading of the PA5 II Plus. If that's the case, you might want to look at the Uptra and Mini300, as the latter is £140, so a saving of £10 overall, but leaving you with a good bit more of an upgrade path, and more flexibility immediately.

The least reliable piece of electonics in anyone's hi-fi is the amplifier. If the amp goes it's pretty much 50:50 that it's the pwer supply which will go, so keeping the streamer and amp separate, and the power supply and amp separate (which the Topping does, but the Amp Ultra doesn't) is also a good idea.

The Mini3000 has better (lower) distortion, and lower noise/better dynamic range, and is more powerful than the Amp Ultra.

 

[hoohoohoo]

You may want to add a subwoofer to round out the bottom end of your speakers -- many here do this. If you go active, suggest that you keep a subwoofer option in mind to avoid any self-limiting purchases.

 

[Fernandodelae]

So, while the posts provided here are valid alternatives I would ask a little about the office space / layout: is it a small office room or a medium sized open space? Would the speakers be placed in a desktop config or on a surrounding bookshelf or furniture?

When I imagine an office I usually think about a Desktop setup, a computer involved , and smaller speakers for near field listening at med to low volume, but that`s just me.. If this is the case having a separate amplifier like the Amp Ultra would seem like overkill for me and I would go with some desktop active speakers with an Ultra )or even a Pro Plus, either connected by RCA or Optical output. I've pretty good options with inexpensive active speakers so it shouldn`t break the bank. I really wouldn`t complicate my self so much with this kind of setup

 

[Deleted member 29741]

As long as I needed a desktop setup this toys accompanied me for two years. Obviously no mainstream, but I loved it. 650 per pair is in my opinion a bargain for made in EU. Positioning is possible in many ways.

add. It worked perfect with a forgotten small Chinese Class D amp and it will for sure do with any of the WiiM amps.

Duevel AttikA - Punktschallquelle Desktop Lautsprecher

Duevel AttikA ist ein omnidirektionaler Kompaktlautsprecher mit flexibler Aufhängung am Tisch und natürlicher Basswiedergabe. 3D-Sound.

www.duevel.com

 

[DazST]

The Mini3000 has better (lower) distortion, and lower noise/better dynamic range, and is more powerful than the Amp Ultra.

I'm not sure about this last part as the mini300 specs state:
85W × 2 @8Ω (THD+N <10%)
65W × 2 @8Ω (THD+N <1%)

 

[dominikz]

I'm not sure about this last part as the mini300 specs state:
85W × 2 @8Ω (THD+N <10%)
65W × 2 @8Ω (THD+N <1%)

That's correct. Topping Mini 300 apparently generates 65W while WiiM Amp Ultra generates 100W under the same conditions (driving an 8Ohm load at 1% THD).

Of course the difference in sound pressure level is not as dramatic as it may seem from the above - Amp Ultra will only be about 2 dB SPL louder than Mini300 at maximum power.

Remember that you need to double the power in Watts to gain just +3dB SPL.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Cheers, I’ll check that out.

Still pretty good. My first proper amp was an Audiolab 8000A and I seem to remember that being 2 x 60W, and was considered a monster at the time.

 

[dominikz]

Cheers, I’ll check that out.

Still pretty good. My first proper amp was an Audiolab 8000A and I seem to remember that being 2 x 60W, and was considered a monster at the time.

60W is much more than people think.

Two speakers of average sensitivity (86dB SPL at 2.83V at 1m) driven by a 60W amp should be able to reach up to 104dB SPL peaks at 2m distance. That's pretty loud.

Under the same conditions increasing power to 120W would get you 107dB SPL peaks (a little louder than 60W), you'd need 600W to get 114dB SPL peaks (twice as loud as 60W), and 6000W to get 124dB SPL peaks (four times as loud as 60W).

On the other hand, with a measly 6W amp you should still be able to hit 94dB peaks (half as loud as 60W).
That can still be pretty loud, if difference between average and peak levels in the recording isn't too big (e.g. dynamically compressed commercial music).

 

[PaintItBlack]

If passive speakers are to be used I would only choose the Ultra if paired with a Hypex NCx or Purify based amp. For a TI TPA based amp section, the Ultra Amp is the way to go. I don't think TPA amps are going to be much better than that of the Amp Ultra.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

If passive speakers are to be used I would only choose the Ultra if paired with a Hypex NCx or Purify based amp. For a TI TPA based amp section, the Ultra Amp is the way to go. I don't think TPA amps are going to be much better than that of the Amp Ultra.

Why would you limit the choice of amplifier, when they’re largely a solved problem, with a bucketload to choose from which will be indistinguishable?

 

[Deleted member 29741]

Why would you limit the choice of amplifier, when they’re largely a solved problem, with a bucketload to choose from which will be indistinguishable?

Not always with you , but totally here. The market offers every choice for amplifiers. Often when I see or hear other setups the amp is more expensive than the speakers. Perhaps because it is more bling bling. Wrong way! Just the next hype(x) to keep wheels moving.

 

[PaintItBlack]

Why would you limit the choice of amplifier, when they’re largely a solved problem, with a bucketload to choose from which will be indistinguishable?

My reason is that, unless you want to experiment with state-of-the-art (SOTA) class D amplifiers (e.g., Hypex NCx) or need more power, the Amp Ultra's TPA3255 is sufficient. On the other hand, if you already have a power amp you're happy with, the Ultra is a great choice.

 

[Aquaman]

Why would you limit the choice of amplifier, when they’re largely a solved problem, with a bucketload to choose from which will be indistinguishable?

They may be indistinguishable for the most part, but I‘m still convinced that a high power amp will contribute to bass control and that a multiple of the mean power used is required to do this properly.

With this in mind why should I bother with expensive, heavy and energetically highly inefficient class A/B or mediocre TPA amps?
You can have the best-ever power amps for around 2500 EUR, which in my mind are 2nd Gen Purifis.

 

[FuckaZip]

Since alternatives are being suggested here that differ from the question, I will also not hold back and bring alternatives into play:

Source: WiiM Pro / PC

DAC: S.M.S.L SU-6 DAC (Pro via coax, PC via USB)

Amplifier: Fosi Audio TDA7498E

Speaker: Magnat Monitor Supreme 202

I am very happy with this combination. It rarely happens, but I can also use Bluetooth with reasonable codecs from the S.M.S.L independently of the network or during unspeakable update arias. I also like the fact that the PC can be connected via USB and the S.M.S.L acts as a high-quality sound card. The office is approx. 10m².

 

[Aquaman]

Since alternatives are being suggested here that differ from the question, I will also not hold back and bring alternatives into play:

Source: WiiM Pro / PC

DAC: S.M.S.L SU-6 DAC (Pro via coax, PC via USB)

Amplifier: Fosi Audio TDA7498E

Speaker: Magnat Monitor Supreme 202

I am very happy with this combination. It rarely happens, but I can also use Bluetooth with reasonable codecs from the S.M.S.L independently of the network or during unspeakable update arias. I also like the fact that the PC can be connected via USB and the S.M.S.L acts as a high-quality sound card. The office is approx. 10m².

I got carried away in my previous reply, not taking the use case into consideration.
For some background music in an office I would probably buy an Amp Ultra and maybe a pair of the new Dali Cupids.
No external power supplies floating around. Nice and clean.

 

[slartibartfast]

I got carried away in my previous reply, not taking the use case into consideration.
For some background music in an office I would probably buy an Amp Ultra and maybe a pair of the new Dali Cupids.
No external power supplies floating around. Nice and clean.

I am sure a lot of forum members are using the Amp Ultra for more than background music.