Ultra - Sub cuts out at low volume

[sNc]

No, it couldn't. .Not in a sensible way.

But you can easily set the volume level in the WiiM Home App to +10 dB and further decrease the volume on the sub.

Why would you ask for some miracle solution without trying the obvious one, first?

Because for some songs, if I would like to increase the sub volume from the app, I cannot go higher than 10. I have to go to sub then

 

[sNc]

No, it couldn't. .Not in a sensible way.

I still think it's possible. My subwoofer used to work with NAD 356 before. I used the speaker outputs (via adapter) and the subwoofer was activated from the minimum volume. When there was no music playing, it didn't activate.

 

[harkpabst]

Because for some songs, if I would like to increase the sub volume from the app, I cannot go higher than 10. I have to go to sub then

For that you have EQ ...

And isn't the sub volume setting up to 15 dB?

 

[harkpabst]

I still think it's possible. My subwoofer used to work with NAD 356 before. I used the speaker outputs (via adapter) and the subwoofer was activated from the minimum volume. When there was no music playing, it didn't activate.

Totally different setup, no comparison. It might have this single advantage but also a lot of disadvantages.

 

[Smartplug]

I still think it's possible. My subwoofer used to work with NAD 356 before. I used the speaker outputs (via adapter) and the subwoofer was activated from the minimum volume. When there was no music playing, it didn't activate.

I have same issue you have so what I did play pipe organ then sub would turn on then change to preferred music.

 

[jkdjedi]

That sounds more like a sub issue than a WiiM issue.

I agree, it is a sub issue. I had the exact same thing happening with an AVR receiver, and it's carried over to the Wiim Ultra. The only thing the same between the two... is the SUB. It's a SUB issue, not the Wiim ULtra. I do remember a loudness button on older receivers just for this issue.

 

[jkdjedi]

I finally figured it out... For me, attaching an external DAC via Coax.. at any sound level, the sub out works as advertised.

 

[harkpabst]

I finally figured it out... For me, attaching an external DAC via Coax.. at any sound level, the sub out works as advertised.
View attachment 11435

What's the line out voltage of that DAC, then?

 

[jkdjedi]

What's the line out voltage of that DAC, then?

I still have the subout from the Wiim Ultra, working like a charm. (currently on 2 vmrs)

 

[harkpabst]

I still have the subout from the Wiim Ultra, working like a charm. (currently on 2 vmrs)

Yes, I understand that. But your external DAC also has a certain output voltage, of course. That's what I wanted to know.

Btw., you cannot set the sub output voltage directly with the WiiM Ultra and you cannot set it to 2 Vrms. The maximum value is 1 V.

@staticV3 has been kind enough to share his measurements demonstrate how one can check the relative levels of main out and sub out to prove that volume control is working properly over on AudioScienceReview:

WiiM Ultra

Is it? I'm not sure how. Happy to try. Given that there will be different amps and speakers being connected, how does the ultra manage the relative volume anyway?

audiosciencereview.com

 

[jkdjedi]

Yes, I understand that. But your external DAC also has a certain output voltage, of course. That's what I wanted to know.

Btw., you cannot set the sub output voltage directly with the WiiM Ultra and you cannot set it to 2 Vrms. The maximum value is 1 V.

@staticV3 has been kind enough to share his measurements over on AudioScienceReview:

WiiM Ultra

Is it? I'm not sure how. Happy to try. Given that there will be different amps and speakers being connected, how does the ultra manage the relative volume anyway?

audiosciencereview.com

Good to know, if and when using the Wiim Ultra alone (without an external DAC) the vrms will still have an effect on the overall sound, Less output from left right channels (when dropping the vmrs) will give that perceived additional output from the Sub.

I had to look that up for you. The micro iDSD Black Label has a 6.3mm RCA line out with a fixed 2V output and a variable 2V-5V output. The Direct line out is 2V... the Preamp out is variable 2V-5V, I'm on Direct, sounds the cleanest for my setup.

 

[harkpabst]

The important thing to remember is that that right output level balance between mains and sub must be found for each system and setup individually. Different sensitivity of passive main speakers and different volume settings and gain on different subwoofers will all have an effect nobody can foresee for all possible combinations. That's one reason why the WiiM Home App subwoofer out level can be adjusted from -15 dB to + 15 dB. 0 dB is not magically "right" but just a value WiiM took as a reasonable default. If a subwoofer's auto-on feature doesn't work as expected with low volume music it's a good idea to increase the level fed to the sub, which makes it necessary to reduce the volume on the sub itself.

I had to look that up for you. The micro iDSD Black Label has a 6.3mm RCA line out with a fixed 2V output and a variable 2V-5V output. The Direct line out is 2V... the Preamp out is variable 2V-5V, I'm on Direct, sounds the cleanest for my setup.

Thanks for looking this up. So, effectively the output of your external DAC at 0 dBFS should be the same as the default output of the Ultra's DAC. I don't know why it makes a difference then, but the most important thing is that this did indeed solve the issue in your setup. Nice.

 

[jkdjedi]

The important thing to remember is that that right output level balance between mains and sub must be found for each system and setup individually. Different sensitivity of passive main speakers and different volume settings and gain on different subwoofers will all have an effect nobody can foresee for all possible combinations. That's one reason why the WiiM Home App subwoofer out level can be adjusted from -15 dB to + 15 dB. 0 dB is not magically "right" but just a value WiiM took as a reasonable default. If a subwoofer's auto-on feature doesn't work as expected with low volume music it's a good idea to increase the level fed to the sub, which makes it necessary to reduce the volume on the sub itself.


Thanks for looking this up. So, effectively the output of your external DAC at 0 dBFS should be the same as the default output of the Ultra's DAC. I don't know why it makes a difference then, but the most important thing is that this setup did indeed solve the issue in your setup. Nice.

Thanks, I'm relieved it's working out, I was ready to pony up for a Musician Pegasus R2R DAC, but am happy with the iFi, the only (obvious) difference is that I'm using the coaxial out vs the RCA outputs. I still might get that other DAC, much later though. Content for now.

 

[jkdjedi]

And then the bass cuts out again... Ok, I quit... Maybe it is just the subwoofer. I'll probably try that 5w output with a RCA splitter from the DAC at some point.
Edit* if I raise volume slight then lower it the sub holds.

 

[mach]

@sNc @jkdjedi I had the same issue with my REL, sub wouldn't autodetect until volume levels higher than much of my usage. I know it's not the Ultra because with the sub always on, I can feel the driver moving even at the lowest levels. So it's getting the signal, but not triggering on it.

Before the Ultra I had the sub always on, but on a current sensing power strip that turned it on only when my prepro was on (the sub has no 12v trigger, which would be a dead-simple solution if available). However, the Ultra's wattage does *not* change enough from on to standby so I tried autosense instead and ran into the problem above. I fixed it by triggering the power strip on the poweramp wattage instead, which does change significantly when the Ultra triggers the amp via 12v. That might work for others too.

... In the process though I did discover that the sub uses only 4W when forced on and idle, so even if I had to leave it always on it wouldn't be that much waste. The Ultra actually uses more in Standby, something I have a ticket opened for.

 

[jkdjedi]

I fixed it by triggering the power strip on the poweramp wattage instead,

Have no idea what this means. I was thinking this was an inherited thing with the Monoprice (cheap) subwoofer. Thanks for the input, was thinking of upgrading to a REL, I would've been beside myself if it kept doing the same after an upgrade like that. So it's a trigger thing then. I took a timeout from using the subwoofer altogether. But dam do I miss it. With my set-up, I was thinking A.. to have a single to dual RCA out of my DAC to the power amp and the SUB. And dial the crossover with the SUB bypassing the use of the Wiim altogether. Or...B, go old school and the wire out from the amp to the Sub and wire out from the Sub to the main speakers. Major inconvenience. Shit should just work as advertised.

Anyways... What's this triggering the power strip all about?

 

[mach]

@jkdjedi Oh sorry, I thought triggered power strips aka "energy saving" were more common now than they are apparently (mine is old). One of these guys: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=energy+saving+power+strip , like the Sunbeam one or the Tripp-Lite one. I plug the amp into the master outlet, then the master-controlled outlets only switch on when the amp is on, so you can put the sub there. The always-on outlets are always powered (eg TV, Ultra).

 

[jkdjedi]

@jkdjedi Oh sorry, I thought triggered power strips aka "energy saving" were more common now than they are apparently (mine is old). One of these guys: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=energy+saving+power+strip , like the Sunbeam one or the Tripp-Lite one. I plug the amp into the master outlet and the master-controlled outlets only switch on when the amp is on, so you can put the sub there. The always-on outlets are always powered (eg TV, Ultra).

Interesting, just grabbed something like that last week, didn't know they made triggering power strips. The one I got filters out electrical noise. Wondering if there's any Subs out there with built in triggers like amps have.

 

[mach]

I think there are lots, just not all of them. I think the sub amps being all class D the idle usage is much lower than many amps, so it's not obvious to people via heat and $ that the subs should be switched off most of the time.

 

[staticV3]

@staticV3 has been kind enough to share his measurements over on AudioScienceReview:

WiiM Ultra

Is it? I'm not sure how. Happy to try. Given that there will be different amps and speakers being connected, how does the ultra manage the relative volume anyway?

audiosciencereview.com

Just FYI, those are not real measurements of the WiiM Ultra, just made up numbers to illustrate how such a spreadsheet may look.

I don't own a WiiM Ultra.