WiiM Amp Pro
- Thread starter Chiller54
- Start date
at least the option to. like "loudness" as in a fixed one and "dynamic loudness" or "adaptative loudness" as one that did what i said.No, thanks.
Options are always good, as long as developing them doesn't distract resources from more important features.
This has been discussed at great length and breadth in this forum (and in many others I think) and while some want it others (like myself) keep pointing out that it's much harder to do "correctly" and far less useful than some may think (due to a vague definition of what "done correctly may mean").
Just in short: There is nothing inherintly wrong with linear volume control and nothing inherintly right with dynamic loudness, it's a matter of taste. A recording contains no information about what the absolute SPL at the listening position should be. The amplifier has no way to know what SPL the speaker (at the current listening distance) produces at a given output voltage/output power, unless an absolutely calibrated microphone is used and the output is calibrated accordingly. Even if all this was not an issue, you won't really want to compensate for your hearing's loss of sensitivity at very low frequencies, as this could overload your amp and speakers easily. Even if a perfect "correction" was possible, you would still be listening to a sound that could never be experienced in a real live performance. As such, it remains an effect, not a correction.
For me, the consequences are pretty clear. If you want more bass and treble for more pleasing music reproduction at low listening levels, just add EQ as you like it.
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No expert here but for me the explanation is really a lot more simple. I usually use "loudness" is different setups and amps and realise, subjectively, that its effect is not the same, depending on the volume i'm listening at. Without loudness engaged and just turning the volume up, one will "get" more of the extremes, so if you have loudness engaged you might end up with too much of a good thing. you can of course turn it on and off as needed but sometimes it's hard to get a grasp at what volume that's needed or i just forget to. it's just a practical solution for someone who frequently listens to music at different volumes like me. during the day i listen to moderate to higher volumes but later in the evening or at night i turn the volume down so i don't upset the neighbours or someone else in the house that's already gone to bed. just my opinion. if you don't like it or want it it's fine. it would just be a matter of not turning it on so i can't see how it would hurt. have no idea how much effort and resources this would consume, but seing how much constant improvement wiim keeps bringing, i thought it would be a nice suggestion if not now, for the future. again, i'm just making a suggestion and it's completely fine if others don't want it or like it. to me, it would be a nice feature to have.Options are always good, as long as developing them doesn't distract resources from more important features.
This has been discussed at great length and breadth in this forum (and in many others I think) and while some want it others (like myself) keep pointing out that it's much harder to do "correctly" and far less useful than some may think (due to a vague definition of what "done correctly may mean").
Just in short: There is nothing inherintly wrong with linear volume control and nothing inherintly right with dynamic loudness, it's a matter of taste. A recording contains no information about what the absolute SPL at the listening position should be. The amplifier has no way to know what SPL the speaker (at the current listening distance) produces at a given output voltage/output power, unless an absolutely calibrated microphone is used and the output is calibrated accordingly. Even if all this was not an issue, you won't really want to compensate for your hearing's loss of sensitivity at very low frequencies, as this could overload your amp and speakers easily. Even if a perfect "correction" was possible, you would still be listening to a sound that could never be experienced in a real live performance. As such, it remains an effect, not a correction.
For me, the consequences are pretty clear. If you want more bass and treble for more pleasing music reproduction at low listening levels, just add EQ as you like it.
Hi,
There is a request thread elsewhere.
Also, since this forum is a user community, I encourage you to submit feature requests through the feedback section of the WiiM home app.
Thank you. When i joined the thread there were comments stating their wishes/ suggestions (?) for pricing so i thought it was ok to mention a feature i liked it to have. It ended up sounding as a request/ suggestion because the replies i got sounded like someone felt angry or something of sort because of what i'd said, so i went further in explaining it was really just a wish of mine and nothing else (not a request really). I'm also a wiim user btw. Don't worry it won't happen again.Hi,
There is a request thread elsewhere.
Also, since this forum is a user community, I encourage you to submit feature requests through the feedback section of the WiiM home app.
Nobody became angry. It's just that you need to understand that introducing such a feature in a way that works pleasing for you and for everyone else with different speakers in different rooms is not easy.
Yes, this kind of "dynamic loudness" has been around at least since the 1970s and no, it never worked really well.
@Wiimer's comment was just to encourage you to support existing requests, so it's much more likely WiiM might pick it up.
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@WiiM Team any news about the release date of the Amp Pro? Any additional information?
I bought a Wiim Amp during Prime Days (240 CHF was hard to resist) and I will most probably use it in my second system.
However, I would like to check whether the power is enough to run the ELAC UF52 in my living room (35 m2) and how it sounds in comparison with my current main system (Wiim Pro Plus + Hypex NC122MP-based amp). These speakers have a quite high impedance (over 10 Ohm) in the upper range so load dependency may cause some audible issues (which I will also try to correct using PEQ).
If power is good enough with the Amp, and the Amp Pro measures as expected, I may skip the Ultra (I was planning on buying it to replace my Pro Plus) and wait for the Amp Pro to replace the separates in my main system.
Cheers!
I bought a Wiim Amp during Prime Days (240 CHF was hard to resist) and I will most probably use it in my second system.
However, I would like to check whether the power is enough to run the ELAC UF52 in my living room (35 m2) and how it sounds in comparison with my current main system (Wiim Pro Plus + Hypex NC122MP-based amp). These speakers have a quite high impedance (over 10 Ohm) in the upper range so load dependency may cause some audible issues (which I will also try to correct using PEQ).
If power is good enough with the Amp, and the Amp Pro measures as expected, I may skip the Ultra (I was planning on buying it to replace my Pro Plus) and wait for the Amp Pro to replace the separates in my main system.
Cheers!
I was able to resist, but it wasn't easy. I'm waiting for the Amp Pro. I hope it comes soon.
phunny12000
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It's an hdmi input(Edit: This is what happens when you open a thread and don't send your answer immediately.
Or just call it what it is: HDMI ARC
(Not HDMI eARC, btw.)
The roles of the devices are pretty clearly defined.
What makes it arc, the switching of devices happens in the TV using the hdmi option
And audio return channel implies a both direction capability
Exactly, it's an input, only.
Yes, as far as the TV is concerned. But not in the case of the WiiM Amp (Pro) or other sound systems supporting HDMI ARC. They do not send video data to the TV, but just receive audio data.
AVRs might send a video signal to the TV. WiiM devices (and many, many others) do not.
phunny12000
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- May 5, 2024
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Thanks for replying and I totally agree but if that was just said HDMI input on the wiim it would work exactly the same,
phunny12000
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- May 5, 2024
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Sorry it's 5.20am and my explanation is rubbish sorry
I received the Amp today and I was playing a bit with it. I have to say that it ticks all my boxes and I am overall happy. It sounds good, it looks good and it works flawlessly. I can even control the volume of Tidal Connect from my Pixel 8 volume buttons which was not the case with the Pro Plus (@WiiM Support any comment about this?).
I did some quick measurements using REW and a Dayton Audio iMM-6C (to be able to correct for my room as I do not have an iPhone in hand) and compared them with old measurements I did with my main system (Wiim Pro Plus + Hypex NC122MP-based amp). Both are averages of 9 measurements at sightly different listening positions (the individual curves look also pretty similar among them). I was honestly expecting some kind of load dependency associated issues in the high range but the curves are almost indistinguishable (especially considering that they were not taken at the same time and the positions of the mic may not be exactly the same). However, I do not have the knowledge to judge whether load dependency issues should be evident at all in these measurements. I applied PEQ to the range between 30 and 300 Hz to get rid of room resonances as I did in my previous system and it all looks (and sounds) good.
I have no way to do a proper volume-matched blinded subjective listening test so I guess I will leave the Amp in my living room for a few days and check how everyone in the family feels about it. The Hypex can play to slightly higher levels (it is more powerful according to specs) but, honestly, I do not see the need with my speakers. If my inner subjective me tells me that the Hypex is better, I will move the Amp to my garage because I have an old Marantz receiver that only supports DLNA and Tidal Connect is really convenient.
240 CHF for such a small wonder is just mind-blowing! I am not sure whether in my less than perfect listening room (and listening habits) I will be able to hear any differences between the Amp and the Amp Pro but I will wait to see how measurements and reviews look before deciding on whether I get an Ultra to replace the Pro Plus, an Amp Pro to replace the separates or I deal with the upgraditis until the Amp Ultra comes around.
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generaly ,should rather be at least a scale of 1db or better above 1 or 2khz at 0.5-0.2db.. ;-)
You seem to have speakers with a load that fits well with the amp...so much the better,-)
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The Amp did not pass the subjective family test. My wife, who doesn't know (or care) about the specifications or price and certainly prefers the look of the Amp over the separates, thinks that the Pro Plus and the Hypex sound better. I somehow agree but, again, it could be just subjective bias.
Anyway, the Amp will move to the garage and I will probably skip the next gen models. I do not need the screen, sub output, headphone output or phono stage in the Ultra and I doubt it will sound better than the Pro Plus (DACs seem fairly similar). Regarding the Amp Pro, the load dependency doesn't seem to be an issue with my speakers so I would only benefit from a better DAC when comparing to the Amp and I do not think it will sound any better than the Hypex-Pro Plus combo. Looking forward to the next gen products with slightly better amp stage!
The horizontal resolution of your REW graph is extremely low.
Change the bottom SPL to something like 50 dB and the top SPL to something like 90 dB. This should bring out a couple of differences.
