My Ultra tests

[Musician]

I haven't found any differences in my tests in the digital domain for volume processing at -24 dB.

Ok - thats good ! Meaning that the pro+ and pro is as good as the Ultra with the digital volumeregulation used as a digital preamp through spdif to a dac.

The analog outputs from Pro+ and Ultra was like this ( your measurements ) :



This shows a better results with the WiiM ultra than the WiiM pro+ between 10-26000 Hz . A couple of dB better on average.
Now I wonder If those 50 and 100 Hz spikes in the WiiM ultra are coming from using ne5532 on the output with 100 dB CMRR ?
A couple of opa1612 or lm4562 would have been 20 dB more unsensitive for those spikes.

Anyway, this is a very good measurement result.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I’m sure I will get hammered on this especially Steve Woodhouse who like busting chops to other users. I have 7 dacs and all modern devices. 3 uses Ess chip different model and using same opa1612. 3 also uses akm different model and using opa1612. Both chipsets measure extremely good. Now, I could not hear the difference version of ess or akm but I could easily hear if it’s akm or ess chipset. How did I do this? I had one guy cover my eyes and sent me to other room while switching dacs through a switch then guide me to the chair blindfolded and ask me which chipset while playing music. We did this 50 times and I got zero error. I am able to pinpoint which chipset being played between ess and akm. Now, if measure identical should sound same so how did I able to tell the difference? Golden ear!

Not wishing to go too deep into this, that sounds like the ESS ‘hump’.

 

[Brantome]

Not wishing to go too deep into this, that sounds like the ESS ‘hump’.

Particularly when playing this. And looks like lots of jitter too

 

[Smartplug]

Very interessting. Did you use always the same track? Or can you do this with any random song? How would you subscribe the main differences between ESS and AKM?

Yes, listened to known music that I listened everyday playing it 20 times a day for several years. These are John Lennon imagine, Paul Mauriat love is blue, David soul don’t give on us and few more. All these songs were played and I’m able to tell which chipset on the first few notes regardless volume control from low, mid, high to earth shattering level, The guy switching the dac writing down what I say. Akm regardless which model has district character strong powerful bass and mid bass with decay that last bit longer than ess. Ess is very detailed that in long term listening can get ear fatigue. Look all these reviewers doing this as career professional about this chipsets. Surely no ear are same. Remember true test is blind test which I perform blindfolded and being sent to other room while the other guy switching between dac. At the end of the listening test, I went out buy myself Big Mac, fries and coke.

 

[Smartplug]

Not wishing to go too deep into this, that sounds like the ESS ‘hump’.

If you have both ess and akm have them blind folded you and see if you can hear difference. Decay of each songs is one my hint how I tell between songs and which chipset being played. When you been playing same song since childhood you would know if there were changes in how the music was presented. I hope you won’t be breathing down on my neck and criticize me from what I’m saying. Peace brother Steve!

 

[Smartplug]

There is no such thing as two devices which measure the same in general, and proven "transparent devices" do not exist either. I can bet that you will not hear differences in the controlled conditions using the same test signal as the one used for measurements, if results give a strong evidence of being below the audibility level. And this is all.

I agree with your sentiment but what I’m saying is based on what I hear. I’m not saying my ear is measuring device because it is not. But having no error on blindfolded test prove someone can tell difference. How do you explain with zero error that I went in and out the room blindfolded and being sent back to listen and the guy ask me which chipset as much as 50 times? I’m with you I only go with measurements.

 

[Smartplug]

Particularly when playing this. And looks like lots of jitter too

View attachment 9168

If that was cigarette, no thanks I don’t smoke

 

[canard]

Ok - thats good ! Meaning that the pro+ and pro is as good as the Ultra with the digital volumeregulation used as a digital preamp through spdif to a dac.

The analog outputs from Pro+ and Ultra was like this ( your measurements ) :

View attachment 9166

This shows a better results with the WiiM ultra than the WiiM pro+ between 10-26000 Hz . A couple of dB better on average.
Now I wonder If those 50 and 100 Hz spikes in the WiiM ultra are coming from using ne5532 on the output with 100 dB CMRR ?
A couple of opa1612 or lm4562 would have been 20 dB more unsensitive for those spikes.

Anyway, this is a very good measurement result.

with lpf onlyoneme,no ?

 

[onlyoneme]

with lpf onlyoneme,no ?

No LPF.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

If you have both ess and akm have them blind folded you and see if you can hear difference. Decay of each songs is one my hint how I tell between songs and which chipset being played. When you been playing same song since childhood you would know if there were changes in how the music was presented. I hope you won’t be breathing down on my neck and criticize me from what I’m saying. Peace brother Steve!

Peace mate.

Just checking that you were aware of the ESS hump. Many DACs with an ESS chip have it, some don't.

Best wishes. Falling out gives me the hump.

 

[onlyoneme]

I agree with your sentiment but what I’m saying is based on what I hear. I’m not saying my ear is measuring device because it is not. But having no error on blindfolded test prove someone can tell difference. How do you explain with zero error that I went in and out the room blindfolded and being sent back to listen and the guy ask me which chipset as much as 50 times? I’m with you I only go with measurements.

I prefer to avoid comments on listening impressions regardless of the results, when different devices are involved. There are too many factors which may affect results, and deep details are usually not provided.

 

[canard]

No LPF.

sorry thd
not ... thd-n...

 

[onlyoneme]

sorry thd
not ... thd-n...

That's why it's THD.

 

[canard]

That's why it's THD.

I understand well...

Thread 'My WiiM Pro Plus 2nd sample test' https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/my-wiim-pro-plus-2nd-sample-test.1580/


and ultra no lpf(-110.7).. et plusx2 (-115.8) , ultra with lpf (-115.1) (in thd/n despite your lpf remaining "dirty")


to gently bring back to the original meaning of this thread...

;-)

(ps also heavily impacts analog inputs?)

 

[Smartplug]

Peace mate.

Just checking that you were aware of the ESS hump. Many DACs with an ESS chip have it, some don't.

Best wishes. Falling out gives me the hump.

Does smsl do200 mkii has hump? Does smsl do400 has hump? Does smsl su 9pro has hump? All the dac I have used are from smsl 3 with ess and 3 with akm. All their own measurements shows really good numbers.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Not sure. Here's what it does to the Topping DX7 vs DX7s:




The annoying thing is, some manufacturers appear to have 'fixed' it (the hump appears to be inherent to the ESS chip), whilst others don't.

Indeed, sometimes they've fixed it for some models but not for others.

 

[Musician]

Not sure. Here's what it does to the Topping DX7 vs DX7s:


View attachment 9173

The annoying thing is, some manufacturers appear to have 'fixed' it (the hump appears to be inherent to the ESS chip), whilst others don't.

Indeed, sometimes they've fixed it for some models but not for others.

The WiiM ultra has a ess hump according to onlyoneme . With a LPF it dissapears, according to onlyoneme.
Question is - If a unit has that ”hump” , is it audible ? It sure is measurable .

 

[Smartplug]

The WiiM ultra has a ess hump according to onlyoneme . With a LPF it dissapears, according to onlyoneme.
Question is - If a unit has that ”hump” , is it audible ? It sure is measurable .

All these numbers presented by measurements are good but if it’s not audible beyond human hearing then it won’t matter. In paper, having .0005 thd plus noise vs .00005 thd plus noise would give later a better answer.

 

[slartibartfast]

Completely unverified and unverifiable.

Not to mention that, it of 79 testers, the three systems scored 19/31/29. The split between high end and Apple dongle was 31/29. That’s random.

Returning to this I downloaded the test files and extracted the same piece of music from each one and fed them into Deltawave software. I compared C to A and B. The results FWIW suggest C and B are a lot closer to each other than A.

 

[Smartplug]

Many of us here watch Randy, Erin, darko and Andrew which based on subjective. I listen to their comments how it was sound then I buy it to see to myself how it was sound. After that, packed and return it.