My Ultra tests

[canard]

Onlyoneme, I hope you dont loose the energy to make measurement because of those fundamentalists from ASR polluting this thread.

I would like to see comparisons with Pro+ ( with stock power supply ) and the Ultra ( without LPF ) using the digital volume control at - 20 dB , both from spdif electrical out ( to see the resolution when used as digital preamps ) and from the analog output after the internal dacs.

in fact, a good number of measurements will have to be studied at like -20-30db..
I would even be tempted to say that for people listening to demanding acoustic music with significant dynamic differences, the essential musical content can be at low levels... could be those highlighted in the first place...
(besides the famous ess hump easily observable on modest two-tone imds was definitely annoying)

 

[Brantome]

Onlyoneme, I hope you dont loose the energy to make measurement because of those fundamentalists from ASR polluting this thread.

Let’s not descend to the level of name calling that others do - objectivists v subjectivists is probably as strong as we should get. Thanks

 

[steadyshot]

Let’s not descend to the level of name calling that others do - objectivists v subjectivists is probably as strong as we should get. Thanks

Objectivist is not accurate characterization for some people here . Objectivist is one that can draw conclusions within the reach of the available data and remains agnostic about what cannot be extrapolated from the data with high degree of certainty . Manipulating the data does not make you objectivist

 

[Brantome]

Objectivist is not accurate characterization for some people here . Objectivist is one that can draw conclusions within the reach of the available data and remains agnostic about what cannot be extrapolated from the data with high degree of certainty . Manipulating the data does not make you objectivist

Maybe we shouldn’t have any labels then?

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Onlyoneme, I hope you dont loose the energy to make measurement because of those fundamentalists from ASR polluting this thread.

Unfortunately, comments like this only provide heat, and no light.

 

[Brantome]

Unfortunately, comments like this only provide heat, and no light.

I’ve already asked that we don’t use comments like that, no need to rake over the coals. Thanks

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Objectivist is not accurate characterization for some people here . Objectivist is one that can draw conclusions within the reach of the available data and remains agnostic about what cannot be extrapolated from the data with high degree of certainty . Manipulating the data does not make you objectivist

I have no disagreement with that.

On a personal level, I appreciate subjectivists more when they accept that, whilst ‘measurements aren’t everything’, they are an awful lot, and always get us most of the way there, if not all the way.

I’d have more sympathy with that than those who appear to ignore measurements, largely or completely.

I suspect many of us are a lot closer than it might first appear.

 

[slartibartfast]

I have no disagreement with that.

On a personal level, I appreciate subjectivists more when they accept that, whilst ‘measurements aren’t everything’, they are an awful lot, and always get us most of the way there, if not all the way.

I’d have more sympathy with that than those who appear to ignore measurements, largely or completely.

I suspect many of us are a lot closer than it might first appear.

Pretty sure my system sounds a bit different every day depending on my mood etc

 

[Brantome]

Pretty sure my system sounds a bit different every day depending on my mood etc

Yeah, and room temperature, humidity etc I suspect too.

 

[slartibartfast]

Yeah, and room temperature, humidity etc I suspect too.

Not forgetting how much alcohol has been consumed

 

[onlyoneme]

I would like to see comparisons with Pro+ ( with stock power supply ) and the Ultra ( without LPF ) using the digital volume control at - 20 dB , both from spdif electrical out ( to see the resolution when used as digital preamps ) and from the analog output after the internal dacs.

I haven't found any differences in my tests in the digital domain for volume processing at -24 dB.

 

[canard]

I haven't found any differences in my tests in the digital domain for volume processing at -24 dB.

it's a lot at the dac level that's interesting...at the digital level past the threshold of 24bit processing (see 32-64 which will be really useful in pro) we can imagine it seems to me a margin is rather sufficient ... ;-)

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Not forgetting how much alcohol has been consumed

WORD!

 

[Jls]

Regarding the DAC differences: did the identical test results include controlling the volume and making sure the volume was identical? Was this carefully measured and controlled?

 

[Musician]

I haven't found any differences in my tests in the digital domain for volume processing at -24 dB.

Ok - thats good ! Meaning that the pro+ and pro is as good as the Ultra with the digital volumeregulation used as a digital preamp through spdif to a dac.

The analog outputs from Pro+ and Ultra was like this ( your measurements ) :



This shows a better results with the WiiM ultra than the WiiM pro+ between 10-26000 Hz . A couple of dB better on average.
Now I wonder If those 50 and 100 Hz spikes in the WiiM ultra are coming from using ne5532 on the output with 100 dB CMRR ?
A couple of opa1612 or lm4562 would have been 20 dB more unsensitive for those spikes.

Anyway, this is a very good measurement result.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I’m sure I will get hammered on this especially Steve Woodhouse who like busting chops to other users. I have 7 dacs and all modern devices. 3 uses Ess chip different model and using same opa1612. 3 also uses akm different model and using opa1612. Both chipsets measure extremely good. Now, I could not hear the difference version of ess or akm but I could easily hear if it’s akm or ess chipset. How did I do this? I had one guy cover my eyes and sent me to other room while switching dacs through a switch then guide me to the chair blindfolded and ask me which chipset while playing music. We did this 50 times and I got zero error. I am able to pinpoint which chipset being played between ess and akm. Now, if measure identical should sound same so how did I able to tell the difference? Golden ear!

Not wishing to go too deep into this, that sounds like the ESS ‘hump’.

 

[Brantome]

Not wishing to go too deep into this, that sounds like the ESS ‘hump’.

Particularly when playing this. And looks like lots of jitter too

 

[Smartplug]

Not wishing to go too deep into this, that sounds like the ESS ‘hump’.

If you have both ess and akm have them blind folded you and see if you can hear difference. Decay of each songs is one my hint how I tell between songs and which chipset being played. When you been playing same song since childhood you would know if there were changes in how the music was presented. I hope you won’t be breathing down on my neck and criticize me from what I’m saying. Peace brother Steve!

 

[Smartplug]

There is no such thing as two devices which measure the same in general, and proven "transparent devices" do not exist either. I can bet that you will not hear differences in the controlled conditions using the same test signal as the one used for measurements, if results give a strong evidence of being below the audibility level. And this is all.

I agree with your sentiment but what I’m saying is based on what I hear. I’m not saying my ear is measuring device because it is not. But having no error on blindfolded test prove someone can tell difference. How do you explain with zero error that I went in and out the room blindfolded and being sent back to listen and the guy ask me which chipset as much as 50 times? I’m with you I only go with measurements.

 

[Smartplug]

Particularly when playing this. And looks like lots of jitter too

View attachment 9168

If that was cigarette, no thanks I don’t smoke