My Ultra tests

[Steve Woodhouse]

Ok here’s facts about dac from entry level to their top end the sinad, thd are about 3db difference in measurements in sinad 123db vs 120 and frequency response ruler flat and thd is .005 vs .0005. Obviously, the top end will get better paper specs but the price difference could tripled. Will the better specs would yield better sound if those are beyond human hearing? They have excuse to sell them tripled because of better specs but the buyer buying them would think could hear difference other than robbing their hard earn cash. Like most casual listeners could not hear difference let alone sell them top end. These people who claim they could hear difference between akm and ess like reviewers from you tube are not smart?

Actually, no. Another strawman, I’m afraid.

Transparent DACs start below £100. The very best measuring DACs cost below £1,000 and are only better in measurement. In other words, if we say transparency is 120dB for a certain criteria, then 130dB measures better, but doesn’t sound any different.

 

[Smartplug]

Actually, no. Another strawman, I’m afraid.

Transparent DACs start below £100. The very best measuring DACs cost below £1,000 and are only better in measurement. In other words, if we say transparency is 120dB for a certain criteria, then 130dB measures better, but doesn’t sound any different.

Indeed, all these modem dac even cheap one are transparent then why company like sml produce dac raging from 100 to 1000 if both transparent and should sound same.

 

[steadyshot]

That’s a strawman. They’re not ‘proposed by a forum member on ASR. What they are is a list of measurable criteria which have been identified in audio science as having an affect on human perception of sound. They also happen to be the criteria that hi-fi manufacturers have been striving to improve for years.

If you feel there are other criteria, that’s great. Let us know what they are, and they can be tested in properly controlled tests.



That’s not true, and a few examples have already been given.

There is one more thing. We already know that many people struggle to tell DACs apart, even one one is measurably world class, and the other ‘workmanlike’, and not measuring brilliantly.

As I say, I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just saying, if you’re right, take your proof to the audio scientists and engineers.

Who could possibly say I’m being unfair.

It is suggested by a member on a forum not an official organisation.

The dac you said that it passes strict does not pass imd .i have quoted the asr review… So no dac passes strict.

Strict exists because lenient is uncertain.

Do not tell me it is not true. Why you do this? You are constantly twisting the truth.

 

[Smartplug]

In reality buying better specs would think would sound better aside from bragging rights how much you spend that doesn’t yield sound difference. Much like saying driver would not appreciate extra hp if their limit of driving is 40 mph. I know who drive that slow.

 

[steadyshot]

The fact that manufacturers strive to improve certain metrics does not mean that they have set a threshold . Your logic is weak. The threshold set was arbitrary as far as completeness and had some sense in the strict form related to audibility

 

[Smartplug]

Yes that’s true but those don’t yield meaningful that ear can hear it aside from selling the unit more expensive for higher profit.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Indeed, all these modem dac even cheap one are transparent then why company like sml produce dac raging from 100 to 1000 if both transparent and should sound same.

Well, at last it appears we have some agreement.

For balance, the arguments on the other side are:
1 - The Pride of Ownership (the “I have best” argument)
2 - Engineering Excellence (the “I want the best” argument)

It would appear we agree. But I can’t and won’t criticise the above. If people want to spend their money on something they feel adds something outside of what you and I aim for, then that’s beyond the remit of my argument.

For me, I’m just for the sound quality. But I appreciate others might see things differently.

 

[Musician]

I understand well...

Thread 'My WiiM Pro Plus 2nd sample test' https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/my-wiim-pro-plus-2nd-sample-test.1580/


and ultra no lpf(-110.7).. et plusx2 (-115.8) , ultra with lpf (-115.1) (in thd/n despite your lpf remaining "dirty")


to gently bring back to the original meaning of this thread...

;-)

(ps also heavily impacts analog inputs?)

For those measurements, Onlyoneme used a S booster LPS for the pro+.

There are reasons to believe that the pro+ is worse measuring with the stock supply.

So, both the ultra and pro+ in original state = the ultra probably wins ?

 

[Musician]

no, not that's the subject (for the moment and will be practically nothing compared to the power supply problem)

Are you suggestivt that a SINAD of 110,7 dB is a serious power supply problem ?

Those numbers where impossible 5 years ago.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

For those measurements, Onlyoneme used a S booster LPS for the pro+.

There are reasons to believe that the pro+ is worse measuring with the stock supply.

So, both the ultra and pro+ in original state = the ultra probably wins ?

Again, it’s not a question of whether one number is higher/lower than the other.

It’s a question of whether one is audible in normal listening conditions or not.

 

[alpha_zulu]

I have the feeling that things are going round in circles here. New insights are probably not to be expected. Perhaps the thread should be closed. For the sake of world peace.

 

[Smartplug]

I have the feeling that things are going round in circles here. New insights are probably not to be expected. Perhaps the thread should be closed. For the sake of world peace.

Haha, I think you know where this thing would end up with.

 

[Griff]

And this is for the Pro/Plus:

Ideal and perfect waveforms would show rectangles. In the real world it should be as close as possible to the ideal one.

Hi @onlyoneme I just wondered what could be the source of the difference from ideal in the test above?

 

[pieterv1]

Hi @onlyoneme I just wondered what could be the source of the difference from ideal in the test above?

Just basic filtering I guess...The signal seems to be filtered a little more compared to the ultra. As long as your dac can recognize what's 1 and what's 0, you're good

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I have the feeling that things are going round in circles here. New insights are probably not to be expected. Perhaps the thread should be closed. For the sake of world peace.

I’m not sure if you’re aware, but you could always just stop reading the thread if you’re fed up with it.

 

[Brantome]

Or they can go to the 476 page, nine and a half thousand comment thread on ASR discussing largely the same

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I moderate a forum which discusses a particular Mediterranean island. 10,000 members.

One thing you get, over and over.

Someone posts that they had a great meal at a Chinese restaurant. Someone will reply, saying they should only be eating Greek food whilst there.

Someone else posts asking where on the island you can get John Smiths. Someone will angrily reply asking why they’re not drinking Mythos.

Someone will post asking where they’re most likely to get a sun lounger. Someone will reply saying they should lay on a towel.

Someone will post asking what the best taverna is, someone will reply telling them to find out for themselves.

Half our work as mods is just repeating the same old mantra. If you don’t like a discussion, just scroll on by. It’s amazing how many people will read all the way through a 10 page thread - every post - only to post at the start of page 11 to say how annoying they find the topic.

You can’t get fed up with something if you don’t read it.

 

[onlyoneme]

Hi @onlyoneme I just wondered what could be the source of the difference from ideal in the test above?

I don't know. Maybe it's somehow related to clocks, worse rise/fall times can be also an effect of the LPF, but I'm just guessing.

 

[canard]

I don't know. Maybe it's somehow related to clocks, worse rise/fall times can be also an effect of the LPF, but I'm just guessing.

a story of efforts or not of buffering, of care given or not to that if, of galvanic isolation or not, of type of insulation... I wasn't really on the plus or pro.... in ultra, seem do it...

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

There’s an interesting video on jitter here. As it’s Amir at ASR, I know some won’t be interested, but others will.