My Ultra tests

[onlyoneme]

Coaxial input in the Ultra?

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Coaxial input in the Ultra?

Ah! My apologies, yes of course.

So what you’re talking about is digital in, coax out, is that right?

 

[onlyoneme]

Sometimes it's via toslink input, sometimes a network streaming is used. In the last example toslink wasn't used.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Sometimes it's via toslink input, sometimes a network streaming is used. In the last example toslink wasn't used.

And can you specify exactly what you’re measuring - what the two axes are.

 

[onlyoneme]

Measured signal level vs frequency, as usually for FFT graphs.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Measured signal level vs frequency, as usually for FFT graphs.

The scale is very unclear on last two. All the earlier ones were dB vs Hz.

 

[onlyoneme]

dBFS or dBr, usually, but Volts sometimes as well.

 

[Realisticandcredibility]

What about the power supply in the Ultra, is it good? Whouldn’t it be better with the possibility to choose which power supply to use With Ultra?

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

dBFS or dBr, usually, but Volts sometimes as well.

I know you know your stuff, but please be aware that the members here reading your posts have a range of knowledge, and ability to decipher stats, etc.

If you're talking about noise (as we appear to be here) a clear and simply SNR would be very helpful.

I remember previously someone posting about RF interference and showing unclear graphs. When everything was revealed, the interference was happening, not in the 20Hz-20kHz range, but in mHz. It's very easy to make something look like a large error on a graph, but it's not until the measurements are absolutely clear that we can judge how relevent they are.

Keep up the good work.

 

[canard]

Post in thread 'My Ultra tests' https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/my-ultra-tests.3964/post-64221
more easy?

 

[onlyoneme]

@Steve Woodhouse
Well, what can I say, I provide results the same way as always. Of course it's possible that I will disappoint someone, in such cases I can only suggest to look for similar measurements in other sources, more meaningful and described in a better way.
I'm pretty sure that you can find a much better version of everything I do, but on ASR.
SNR is a bit useless in the mentioned case as there is no fundamental signal for a reference.

 

[Musician]

What about the power supply in the Ultra, is it good? Whouldn’t it be better with the possibility to choose which power supply to use With Ultra?

Its all in the thread .
Its not as good as an S booster with the pro + , hovewer , one could argue if a SINAD of 110 or 115 dB matter in reality ?

This are number we could only dream about at any price just 5 years ago .

 

[Brantome]

What about the power supply in the Ultra, is it good? Whouldn’t it be better with the possibility to choose which power supply to use With Ultra?

Given you can't with the Ultra, that's rather moot, plus discussions about the use and impact of power supplies, particularly where the digital (particularly optical) output is being used are always contentious.

 

[canard]

Topping DX3 Pro+ Review (DAC & Headphone Amp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping DX3 Pro+ DAC and headphone amplifier. It is a replacement for one of my most favorite combo products, the DX3 Pro. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $199. The DX3 Pro+ maintains the gorgeous and high contrast orange LEDs...

audiosciencereview.com

2021..same chip , single too etc
wiin announces either -115 or -116 for the ultra...according to the sources (unwieght too) consistent....

 

[Musician]

Topping DX3 Pro+ Review (DAC & Headphone Amp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping DX3 Pro+ DAC and headphone amplifier. It is a replacement for one of my most favorite combo products, the DX3 Pro. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $199. The DX3 Pro+ maintains the gorgeous and high contrast orange LEDs...

audiosciencereview.com

2021..same chip , single too etc
wiin announces either -115 or -116 for the ultra...according to the sources (unwieght too) consistent....

To be fair , regarding thd , this is what Onlyoneme measured in the first page .
THD vs frequency, 192 kHz sample rate.
Analog outputs.

As one can see, the THD is lower on the ultra within 20-20000 Hz than with the PRO+.
Its -123,6 dB . This is sota performance.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

To be fair , regarding thd , this is what Onlyoneme measured in the first page .

As one can see, the THD is lower on the ultra within 20-20000 Hz than with the PRO+.
Its -123,6 dB !


View attachment 9550

If someone can hear something as loud as 123dB and simultaneously hear background noise, then (a) well done, they're a wonder of medical science, and (b), they should turn it down before their magical hearing is damaged beyond repair.

Yet another example of ‘just because you can measure it, doesn’t mean anyone can hear it’.

 

[Musician]

This is onlyoneme:s measurement with WiiM ultra of the waveforms over the digital coax output, tested with the oscilloscope and 192 kHz sample rate test signal, and terminated at 75 ohms.

Again - really good performance .
I havent seen any other product regardless of price performing any better than this through spdif coaxial .

 

[Musician]

It's going to be a long time process, but I will try to add a new content periodically. Everything based on the pre prod device which is PCB ver 2 unit.

Just one thing at the beginning, a comparison of the waveforms over the digital coax output, tested with the oscilloscope and 192 kHz sample rate test signal, and terminated at 75 ohms.

This is for the Ultra:

View attachment 8954

And this is for the Pro/Plus:

View attachment 8955

Ideal and perfect waveforms would show rectangles. In the real world it should be as close as possible to the ideal one.




A rough comparison of the Pro Plus with the Ultra, THD vs frequency, 192 kHz sample rate. It's not a THD+N, so it's not a sinad. And this is over the analog output using full scale sine signals.

View attachment 8971

The "hills" here would require some explanation, but I'll spend some time on that a little later with my personal perspective on other measurements results which I've faced.




Few words on the noise on the analog output. I use 192 kHz sample rate and a dithered silence file to keep the output active.

First result is taken when the Ultra is connected directly to my ADC, screen is off:

View attachment 9045

and with the screen on:

View attachment 9046

10 kHz component (and harmonics) appear.

Now the same test but also with the scaler, so that's the setup I use most of the time, screen off:

View attachment 9047

and the screen on:

View attachment 9048

One of the differences between above setups is the input impedance, 1.2 kOhm vs 100 kOhm. I've made some additional tests with RME UCX II and 5 kOhm and 9 kOhm impedances, and observed results lied between these above, being closer to the ADC alone with its low input impedance. I guess that the noise pollution from the PSU is strong enough to reveal itself when high impedance input is used. And it can affect measurement results.
Personally I prefer to see something as below, the Pro Plus powered by an LPS and with the scaler, so high impedance input is used:

View attachment 9051


As I am still suspicious, I made another test with the LPF (which I use for class D amps measurements) attached. The scaler is used again:

View attachment 9052

Noise pollution is highly attenuated, so maybe it comes from the high frequency noise made by the PSU. I looked at the spectrum of white noise to verify how the DAC filter (there are 7 of them BTW) handles is. Below a comparison with the Pro Plus:

View attachment 9053

It doesn't look good to me.




And something for those sinad addicted, with an LPF:

View attachment 9065

and without it:

View attachment 9066




For all the following tests I will use the LPF, except stated otherwise.

The Dynamic Range, 120.1 dB.

View attachment 9361

THD vs level, for 1 kHz test tone:

View attachment 9375

IMD vs level, for SMPTE test tone:

View attachment 9376

A small sign of ESS hump is visible. I said in the comments, based on quick tests, that it wasn't visible with the LPF, but I was wrong.


J-test for the analog output. I've no idea why some people take such results as jitter measurements of the digital outputs...

View attachment 9377

NID multitone:

View attachment 9378



Time for something I would call a noise profile, over the coaxial output. I use both ADC Cosmos and the Scaler plus the LPF, with a termination at 75 ohm just before the LPF. Due to the LPF characteristics I limit the recording sample rate to 96 kHz. As a test signal I use dithered "silence" file.

First result comes from SMSL PO100 Pro, powered by the USB hub:

View attachment 9443

Next one is the WiiM Pro, powered by Sbooster LPS:

View attachment 9444

And the last one is the Ultra, powered by its internal SMPS:

View attachment 9445

Onlyoneme :
If the WiiM ultra is earthed ( you have the earthed pinhole on the WiiM ) - does the overall sinad improve ?

 

[canard]

To be fair , regarding thd , this is what Onlyoneme measured in the first page .
THD vs frequency, 192 kHz sample rate.
Analog outputs.

As one can see, the THD is lower on the ultra within 20-20000 Hz than with the PRO+.
Its -123,6 dB . This is sota performance.


View attachment 9550

we are in thd and deliberately not thd/n....
historically the measurements were not used to classify but to diagnose adjust etc etc just by the harmonic distortion profile with and without lpf under 1k on the sinad measurements just shows that a problem of power supply as well as looking closely at the other measurements...

but if that suits you (personally I would be worried about the reliability)....
no worries for me....

just I wouldn't like to be surrounded for my part by this kind of support.... ;-)




maybe onlyoneme will bring back new measures which will prove that I am wrong..and reassure me that I will apologize flatly...but for the moment...

 

[onlyoneme]

This is onlyoneme:s measurement with WiiM ultra of the waveforms over the digital coax output, tested with the oscilloscope and 192 kHz sample rate test signal, and terminated at 75 ohms.

Again - really good performance .
I havent seen any other product regardless of price performing any better than this through spdif coaxial .

View attachment 9551

Give me a week or so, I'm gonna prepare something unseen regarding digital outputs.