Popping/clicking when switching tracks

[AdieH]

Hi all,

I've had this problem since I got my WiiM Mini about 3 months ago. Each time you click "next", or select a new track, in each case while another track is playing, there is a pause (which is normal) followed my a clicking/popping sound before it plays the selected track. There is no clicking/popping if you simply let the one track play and then move to the next, automatically.

I am using Qobuz (thru the WiiM app), but this also happens with Spotify connect.

Hardware is a Denafrips Ares II DAC with a QED cable optical cable.

The release notes from a few months ago identified this as an issue, but it said it was solved. I don't think it is. (The issue was described as:"Popping noise coming through speaker's when changing tracks when using optical output to DAC optical in").

When I logged a ticket (after the release notes claimed it was "solved") they said they are working on it, suggesting it was indeed, not solved. But, the issue persists.

Any ideas? Does anyone else have the same issue, or the same hardware, with no issue?

Cheers,

Adrian

 

[SnowDog]

Hi SnowDog, which volume you're using when you have the clicking problem with your aux port? Can you please send us a feedback whenever you have this issue? Thank you!

Happens at all levels I can adjust it to, even the lowest setting just before it mutes. I just tried fixed aux volume and it seems to reduce the clicking. It's still there but not nearly as pronounced. I've tested with eq on and off and it makes no difference.

 

[Klipscher]

Hi all,

I've had this problem since I got my WiiM Mini about 3 months ago. Each time you click "next", or select a new track, in each case while another track is playing, there is a pause (which is normal) followed my a clicking/popping sound before it plays the selected track. There is no clicking/popping if you simply let the one track play and then move to the next, automatically.

I am using Qobuz (thru the WiiM app), but this also happens with Spotify connect.

Hardware is a Denafrips Ares II DAC with a QED cable optical cable.

The release notes from a few months ago identified this as an issue, but it said it was solved. I don't think it is. (The issue was described as:"Popping noise coming through speaker's when changing tracks when using optical output to DAC optical in").

When I logged a ticket (after the release notes claimed it was "solved") they said they are working on it, suggesting it was indeed, not solved. But, the issue persists.

Any ideas? Does anyone else have the same issue, or the same hardware, with no issue?

Cheers,

Adrian

I have the ares 2 and been experiencing the popping noise when it changed bitrates in tidal. I cleaned the coax cable connection and made sure it was pushed all the way into the wiim and then rebooted the wiim pro.

Seems to help with popping issues, I can no longer reproduce the popping sound I was experiencing.

 

[WiiM Support]

I have the ares 2 and been experiencing the popping noise when it changed bitrates in tidal. I cleaned the coax cable connection and made sure it was pushed all the way into the wiim and then rebooted the wiim pro.

Seems to help with popping issues, I can no longer reproduce the popping sound I was experiencing.

Thanks Klipscher for sharing your fix tip to the pop noise on the coax connection. Our Eng team is also looking at this issue now and will make some further improvement.

 

[Cincyret]

Same problem. Toslink from TV to WiiM Pro (S/N 02JL2252028923-received from Amazon 1/13/23). Coax from WiiM to DAC (minidsp FLEX -COAX not Toslink). Symptom: TV audio OK for 20-30 minutes...then crackling...after about 10 min back to normal.
Inputs: Only Ethernet & Toslink- No bluetooth or line in
Outputs: Coax [note: no red light with toslink out-tried 3 cables...TV toslink in has red light-app set to toslink for audio out- but no sound ???]
Uptated WiiM Pro -firmware 4.8.503558 App ver- 2.3.6.230103.5af758
Ethernet seems OK-connected to Qobuz- played for a hr...No crackling...And Hi-Res plays via Coax!
So 2 problems: (1) crackling on TV/Toslink input/Coax out (2) Toslink out doesn't show red light (and no sound)
The second problem seems to be a defect with the unit (no red light on tosink out). I'm not sure, but perhaps the crackling could be fixed with a firmware update.
Have discribed the problem correctly? Advice? Return to A for a replacement?
I still think Wiim Pro is a great product...just early problems.
Thanks!

 

[WiiM Support]

Same problem. Toslink from TV to WiiM Pro (S/N 02JL2252028923-received from Amazon 1/13/23). Coax from WiiM to DAC (minidsp FLEX -COAX not Toslink). Symptom: TV audio OK for 20-30 minutes...then crackling...after about 10 min back to normal.
Inputs: Only Ethernet & Toslink- No bluetooth or line in
Outputs: Coax [note: no red light with toslink out-tried 3 cables...TV toslink in has red light-app set to toslink for audio out- but no sound ???]
Uptated WiiM Pro -firmware 4.8.503558 App ver- 2.3.6.230103.5af758
Ethernet seems OK-connected to Qobuz- played for a hr...No crackling...And Hi-Res plays via Coax!
So 2 problems: (1) crackling on TV/Toslink input/Coax out (2) Toslink out doesn't show red light (and no sound)
The second problem seems to be a defect with the unit (no red light on tosink out). I'm not sure, but perhaps the crackling could be fixed with a firmware update.
Have discribed the problem correctly? Advice? Return to A for a replacement?
I still think Wiim Pro is a great product...just early problems.
Thanks!

Hi Cincyret, sorry for these issues. Can you please send us a feedback with the WiiM Home App so we can whitelist the new firmware that fixes the issue from the TOSLINK input? The TOSLink out issue seems to be a defective hardware. Please contact with us with the feedback from the WiiM App so we can send a replacement unit to you ASAP. Thank you!

 

[AdieH]

Hi Adrian, can you confirm the clicking/pop noise also happens with the Spotify connect?

There may be a click if the sample rate is changed between the track since your DAC need relock the optical signal due to different sample rates. If we do the bit perfect decoding (the audio resolution of the output matches the audio source without resampling), it may be inevitable.

However, for Spotify Connect, since most track has the same frame rate and bit-depth, there shouldn't be click or pop sound. If you still have this issue, please send us a feedback with the App, we'll look at this immediately. Thank you!

Hi WiiM Support - I confirm there is no clicking/pop noise on Spotify Connect. Sorry for misleading you in my earlier post (I thought there was).

The clicking/popping happens with Qobuz, Amazon Music and Soundcloud, when using the WiiM app.

 

[WiiM Support]

Hi WiiM Support - I confirm there is no clicking/pop noise on Spotify Connect. Sorry for misleading you in my earlier post (I thought there was).

The clicking/popping happens with Qobuz, Amazon Music and Soundcloud, when using the WiiM app.

Hi AdieH, thank you for your additional information.

Can you please check if the sample rate between the tracks changes (i.e., from lossless 44.1kHz/16bit to Hi-Res 96kHz/24bit)? In this case, the SPDIF output will output different clock to your DAC between tracks and your DAC needs re-lock to this changed clock. It may cause the click if it doesn't handle well. However, if the sample rate doesn't change between tracks but you still hear the click, then there's some issue related to our system.

 

[Cincyret]

Same problem. Toslink from TV to WiiM Pro (S/N 02JL2252028923-received from Amazon 1/13/23). Coax from WiiM to DAC (minidsp FLEX -COAX not Toslink). Symptom: TV audio OK for 20-30 minutes...then crackling...after about 10 min back to normal.
Inputs: Only Ethernet & Toslink- No bluetooth or line in
Outputs: Coax [note: no red light with toslink out-tried 3 cables...TV toslink in has red light-app set to toslink for audio out- but no sound ???]
Uptated WiiM Pro -firmware 4.8.503558 App ver- 2.3.6.230103.5af758
Ethernet seems OK-connected to Qobuz- played for a hr...No crackling...And Hi-Res plays via Coax!
So 2 problems: (1) crackling on TV/Toslink input/Coax out (2) Toslink out doesn't show red light (and no sound)
The second problem seems to be a defect with the unit (no red light on tosink out). I'm not sure, but perhaps the crackling could be fixed with a firmware update.
Have discribed the problem correctly? Advice? Return to A for a replacement?
I still think Wiim Pro is a great product...just early problems.
Thanks!

Update! No problems... The WiiM Pro arrived on Saturday...Set it up late on Saurday (probably rushed!!!).... retried everything Sunday morning.
Results:
Two Inputs - Ethernet (Qobuz) & SPDIF (toslink from TV)
Two Outputs - Coax (to minidsp Flex for amp to speakers) & SPDIF (to Topping EX5 for headphones)
Two Sources - Qobuz (Hi-res) & TV audio (NO latency problems)
All sources, inputs, & outputs work perfectly (Hi-res thru COAX & Toslink - No latency problems)
About the crackling... I haven't heard it again, but I only listened to the TV for about an hour - will continue to monitor.

A word of thanks to the Wiim Team - The product (Wiim pro) works great & the support was excellent (less than 4 hrs - to the point)!

Again, I sorry for my previous post [too quick on the trigger] & I love my Wiim! (see photo- middle left)
John

 

[Klipscher]

Thanks Klipscher for sharing your fix tip to the pop noise on the coax connection. Our Eng team is also looking at this issue now and will make some further improvement.

Sadly noticed crackly popping noise again today…kinda weird it went away briefly after a reboot. It doesn’t seem as loud and again only when it switches bitrate in tidal.

 

[onlyoneme]

Sadly noticed crackly popping noise again today…kinda weird it went away briefly after a reboot. It doesn’t seem as loud and again only when it switches bitrate in tidal.

Do you use WiiM app or Tidal Connect for playing Tidal content?

 

[Klipscher]

Tend to use tidal connect but often have both open. Found unless I start listening with tidal connect I only get 16bit or 24 bit and 44.1KHz with the WiiM pro app. With starting in tidal connect I can get 24 bit 88.1 or 96 KHs.
Clicking also is more noticeable when manually switching track.

 

[onlyoneme]

Tend to use tidal connect but often have both open. Found unless I start listening with tidal connect I only get 16bit or 24 bit and 44.1KHz with the WiiM pro app. With starting in tidal connect I can get 24 bit 88.1 or 96 KHs.
Clicking also is more noticeable when manually switching track.

I've asked because it looks like the WiiM app forces spdif relock every time you switch to another track while with Tidal Connect it happens only when sample rate changes. So it's possible that clicks are more often in WiiM app.

 

[WiiM Support]

Update! No problems... The WiiM Pro arrived on Saturday...Set it up late on Saurday (probably rushed!!!).... retried everything Sunday morning.
Results:
Two Inputs - Ethernet (Qobuz) & SPDIF (toslink from TV)
Two Outputs - Coax (to minidsp Flex for amp to speakers) & SPDIF (to Topping EX5 for headphones)
Two Sources - Qobuz (Hi-res) & TV audio (NO latency problems)
All sources, inputs, & outputs work perfectly (Hi-res thru COAX & Toslink - No latency problems)
About the crackling... I haven't heard it again, but I only listened to the TV for about an hour - will continue to monitor.

A word of thanks to the Wiim Team - The product (Wiim pro) works great & the support was excellent (less than 4 hrs - to the point)!

Again, I sorry for my previous post [too quick on the trigger] & I love my Wiim! (see photo- middle left)
John

Hi John, glad to hear the problems are solved and no worry at all.

We'd like to take this opportunity to share our appreciation to the feedback received from users like you. It helps us greatly to improve this product. Our users are always smarter than us with their own unique use cases and needs. We'd like to listen to you carefully and continue improving with the software updates. We hope this product will be significantly better in the next 6 months.

Some of our users don't like this approach and hope we can release the product in more mature state. We'll do our best to provide best possible product at the first launch. However, as some of our user pointed out, streamer is 90% software, 10% hardware. There's never perfect software and we believe the software iteration is inevitable. Sounds like an excuse

Anyway, thank you and please feel free to share your experience and comments on our product and service.

 

[Klipscher]

I've asked because it looks like the WiiM app forces spdif relock every time you switch to another track while with Tidal Connect it happens only when sample rate changes. So it's possible that clicks are more often in WiiM app.

Definitely related to bitrate change if I set it a 16 bit 44.1KHz by turning off MQA beta no clicking. Since it only happens at the start track when locking into bitrate it more a slight annoyance than a major problem. From reading online it’s just not WiiM dac problem but happens with other brands of dac’s.

 

[kate25]

Since majority of us don’t have issue, you may have defective unit or your dac is the issue. Do you have another dac to try ?

I used another streamer and it doesn't have the same problem with the same DACs.

 

[kate25]

Hi Kate25, thank for your Youtube video. One thing I'd like to point out, can you please use the WiiM Home App and test it again? The App you're using seems to be another OEM app we made for other brands. Thank you!

I didn't use the app to switch tracks, just to show the status. With or without the wiim app open, the result is identical. when I switch audio / video content on a laptop - there is a click, which is clearly audible at a high gain level.

Now once again I conducted tests using AUX output. Local files on the phone (all tracks mp3 16bit/44.1kHz), home DLNA, bluetooth, slave mode in multiroom group - pops are present.
When you run the spotify preset, there is one pop, but there is no problem when switching tracks.

But I have already noted that when recording aux out(wiim) to line in(pc), there are no bursts on the sound wave.
Perhaps the wiim output stage is not ideal and is highly sensitive to the circuitry of an external amplifier/DAC. From this, such a different user experience.
That's my guess.

 

[AdieH]

Hi AdieH, thank you for your additional information.

Can you please check if the sample rate between the tracks changes (i.e., from lossless 44.1kHz/16bit to Hi-Res 96kHz/24bit)? In this case, the SPDIF output will output different clock to your DAC between tracks and your DAC needs re-lock to this changed clock. It may cause the click if it doesn't handle well. However, if the sample rate doesn't change between tracks but you still hear the click, then there's some issue related to our system.

Hi Wiim Support

The problem happens when I manually switch between songs, thru the WiiM app:

1. on the same album (i.e. same sample rate)
2. from different albums with different sample rates.

I think the click/popping is softer when it's on the same album (#1 above), and it also seems that if you let the track play for 5-10 seconds, and then switch to another track on the same album, there is no click/popping. I wasn't able to reproduce this 100% of the time, but there seemed to be a connection between how long a track plays before you manually change it, and the occurrence of a click/pop.

Denafrips support offered the following advice:

I believe you are referring to the faint pops/clicks that are sometimes heard when changing the soundtrack, especially with different sampling rates.

Yes sir this could be related due to the delay time for the ddc/dac to process different sampling rate signals.
This delay is being implemented during the design stage and it can't be too much or else it may potentially mute the first few seconds of the playback.

In fact there were a few customers who had feedback the same to us and this had been highlighted to the Denafrips Engineer team for their analysis and review. Some of the customers had managed to remove these faint pops with some settings (eg. jriver delay setting during track change) on the streamers end. Do give it a try and it should fix your problem too. I believe it would need more effort to achieve this from the DAC end.

It sounds like it's too hard to fix on the DAC side, but they recommend using a delay setting. I don't use JRiver, so this advice is of no help to me. I'll tell them that!

Adrian

 

[Cincyret]

Hi John, glad to hear the problems are solved and no worry at all.

We'd like to take this opportunity to share our appreciation to the feedback received from users like you. It helps us greatly to improve this product. Our users are always smarter than us with their own unique use cases and needs. We'd like to listen to you carefully and continue improving with the software updates. We hope this product will be significantly better in the next 6 months.

Some of our users don't like this approach and hope we can release the product in more mature state. We'll do our best to provide best possible product at the first launch. However, as some of our user pointed out, streamer is 90% software, 10% hardware. There's never perfect software and we believe the software iteration is inevitable. Sounds like an excuse

Anyway, thank you and please feel free to share your experience and comments on our product and service.

After four days I can report the following (WiiM Pro)
All output ports work correctly... I get 24/192 music from either port (Coax or SPDIF).
The SPDIF port does not work correctly when fed audio signal from my TV. It's OK for 20min, then crackles for 5 min, then back to normal...repeat. The crackling happens (a) for both Coax & SPDIF output ports, (b) when feeding either DAC (miniDSP or Topping), (c) setting the SPDIF input port to 48 [I think this is what the Sony outputs].
Right now, I have had to go back to my previous cabling - a SPDIF (Toslink) splitter and two cables to my dacs - I now have more cables than before!
When it works - Ethernet playing Qubuz [I used to have my PC on] it works great...but I'd sure like to get the crackling problem fixed (beta firmware?).
Thanks,
John

 

[GMcC]

When using the WIIM Android app or TIDAL Connect Android app or Audirvana Studio (Mac) my WIIM Mini transmits a loud pop/crack sound to my SMSL M200 dac when changing tracks manually. It also happens when I change from e.g. TIDAL to a radio station. My experience is pretty much the same as previous contributors to this thread.

So I tried connecting my WIIM Mini to an iFi Audio Spdif Purifier #2 via Spdif and plugged the Spdif Purifier #2 into my SMSL M200 dac via Coaxial. This set up has completely eliminated the loud pop/crack sound. Please note that the iFi Audio Spdif Purifier #2 is also a Spdif/Coaxial converter.

I have no idea whether other manufacturers' Spdif/Coaxial converters will produce the same positive result.

I have tried both the original version of iFi Audio's Spdif Purifier and the more recent #2 version. I was using them in other systems. They are both equally effective to completely eliminate the WIIM Mini's pop/crack sound with no appreciable loss of audio quality, at least as far as I can hear.

So if you have a spare Spfif/Coaxial converter why not try it and see if it works?

 

[onlyoneme]

I've never faced this kind of pop/click sounds, but I use an automatic spdif switch made by Beni_Skate with "Keep all outputs always on" option enabled.