Test WIIM pro+ with different power supplies

[Vangelo51]

Guys, this ping ponging back and forth really has gone on enough. Can we please drop it?

Sure....but I didnt start it.
I will also point out that if any of these members living in the matrix try to make derogatory comments about my real-world hearing I will respond. All I have done here is respond....and I may add, in a respectful way.

 

[cc_rider]

FWIW, my collection of about 1,000 jazz LPs sits unused, as the vast superiority of digital reproduction is quite clear to these ears. I’ve been meaning to sell it off, but I’m too busy ( or too lazy).

 

[Musician]

Nice review of the LPS from audiophonics. It seems to have a ripple below 1mv peak to peak, so there really is a big difference from the stock supply for the WiiM pro that onlyoneme has measured for me on audiosciencereview, more than 100 times better infact:

WiiM pro stock power supply: 13.03 mV rms, 177,5 mV pk-pk
Apple ipad A1357 2.1 A. : 6.46 mV rms , 72 mV pk-pk

Does it matter ? There is one or many power switched regulators inside the WiiM pro , and they take care of a lot of the stock supply noise. Really cheap chargers can pollute the grid and this might be a worse offender than low ripple on the DC output.

The best power supply with the lowest noise is probably a big 12V battery without any switchers and a separate board with linear regulators down to 5V such as 3045 - this will also not put out any noise whatsoever back to the power grid.

Im very into power supplies right now because I have heard the enormous sound quality impact of the new Utopik power supply for Linn products streamers - a switch mode power supply , a bit similar it seems to the new iFi ipower x . It also uses noise cancellation technicues and double regulation to get the noise down to below 0.01mw , and at the same time has a huge isolation and filtering for the high freq noise going back to the grid.

 

[onlyoneme]

The lowest noise I've seen was on Intona DC-DC output, just a few, maybe a dozen or so, uVrms with 96kHz BW, something like that.

 

[Vangelo51]

FWIW, my collection of about 1,000 jazz LPs sits unused, as the vast superiority of digital reproduction is quite clear to these ears. I’ve been meaning to sell it off, but I’m too busy ( or too lazy).

Agree. Since Digital pulled ahead of vinyl a few years ago I rarely listen to the medium anymore. However, because I am still involved in the industry and need to supply my vinyl die-hard clients with parts, updates & repairs, I cant let it go completely.

 

[onlyoneme]

WiiM pro stock power supply: 13.03 mV rms, 177,5 mV pk-pk
Apple ipad A1357 2.1 A. : 6.46 mV rms , 72 mV pk-pk

As I told you already, do not compare directly PSU noise measurements taken from different sources.

WiiM pro soundquality as a digital transport and the digital volume control quality when listening to music

Someone should measure the stock power supply for the WiiM pro to se how much noise it puts out on the main grid ( If any ). Already did quite a few times, even if I don't have the data on hands (nor the WiiM Pro Plus itself, for what matters). The difference between the stock PSU, a...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Musician]

As I told you already, do not compare directly PSU noise measurements taken from different sources.

WiiM pro soundquality as a digital transport and the digital volume control quality when listening to music

Someone should measure the stock power supply for the WiiM pro to se how much noise it puts out on the main grid ( If any ). Already did quite a few times, even if I don't have the data on hands (nor the WiiM Pro Plus itself, for what matters). The difference between the stock PSU, a...

audiosciencereview.com

Sorry about that. Your WiiM pro supply measurements are correct with your measurement gear . The ipad charger measurements is from 2012 and its another guy that has done measurements. So not comparable because its from different sources.

 

[onlyoneme]

Sorry about that. Your WiiM pro supply measurements are correct with your measurement gear . The ipad charger measurements is from 2012 and its another guy that has done measurements. So not comparable because its from different sources.

Just for you, my SMPS vs my LPS, 96 kHZ BW:

 

[Musician]

Just for you, my SMPS vs my LPS, 96 kHZ BW:

View attachment 4047

Interesting !
Can you explain a little better what we see here ? Which products are you testing ?
Is this only two power supplies measured on their outputs, no WiiM in the chain ?

 

[onlyoneme]

Direct PSU outputs, measured with Cosmos ADC and with AC couplers before. LPS is Sbooster, SMPS is Nirvana earthed on DC side.

 

[onlyoneme]

PSU choice here has no impact on the noise on analog WiiM outputs, for the Pro Plus:

 

[Rudivanb]

PSU choice here has no impact on the noise on analog WiiM outputs, for the Pro Plus:

Thank you for sharing, that is a very good sign, could it be that by listening differences can still be heard?
I am not here wanting to convince anybody of my ways of listening and testing. It's just that I like more listening with my heart than with my brains.

Of course I would like to hear improvements, but as I did in my previous post, if I am not happy with a change, I will tell so.
I am using the digital output, both coax and optical of the WIIM Pro, to see if I hear the same differences between the standard power supply and my new linear power supply. The digital signal goes into the Topping DX9 (not DX90 as I wrote somewhere by mistake). The DX9 is driving the very transparant HD800.

Used the same volume setting for all tracks, I have selected 6 unfamiliar tracks, 2 of these tracks are acoustic by artists I have both heard live several times:
Cuarteto Casals - on Qobuz and
Benjamin Appl - on Qobuz .

With the LPS I noticed the same tonality, but I get more involved, more experiencing the music. With the standard SMPS it is a bit flatter, less 3D, less euphoria for example with 'Boris Brejcha - Vienna', on Qobuz .

To me this is a no brainer, I'd like get more listening pleasure and the new LPS gives me that.

If you are in my neighbourhood (Amsterdam NL) and you want to hear for yourself if there are differences to be heard / felt, sent me a PM to see if we can meet. We are all unique, so it can very well be that your findings are different and that is fine and interesting.

edit type: heated -> heard

 

[onlyoneme]

Plot above is just about the output noise, nothing more. It's not enough to predict sound differences.

But if you like riddles, you can find 3 recordings below, taken with the same ADC from the Pro Plus analog output. The only difference is the PSU used to power the WiiM. Two of them are shown on the plot.

riddle – Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[Musician]

Plot above is just about the output noise, nothing more. It's not enough to predict sound differences.

But if you like riddles, you can find 3 recordings below, taken with the same ADC from the Pro Plus analog output. The only difference is the PSU used to power the WiiM. Two of them are shown on the plot.

riddle – Google Drive

drive.google.com

Interesting.
I will listen today and post my listening result before 17 european time. So dont show the results yet, ok ?

 

[Rudivanb]

Plot above is just about the output noise, nothing more. It's not enough to predict sound differences.

But if you like riddles, you can find 3 recordings below, taken with the same ADC from the Pro Plus analog output. The only difference is the PSU used to power the WiiM. Two of them are shown on the plot.

riddle – Google Drive

drive.google.com

I downloaded the tracks so I could play them bit perfect.
Were these tracks recorded with a microphone in front of speakers,
because that how it sounds to me, or is it just my imagination?
Or did u use the fixed analog line out and converted it back to digital?

 

[Musician]

Ok, here are my impressions.

The recordings really didn't sound good in any of the three cases. As Rudivanb already pointed out, it sounds like you recorded the loudspeakers with a microphone, but maybe that's not the case?. If this is an ADC recording directly from the line output of the WiiM you have used a very bad recording or a bad ADC , which Ím sure its not the case. Anyway, - thanks for letting us do this listening experiment. It sounded almost like mono.

I used my loudspeakers during those tests. Having a cold right now so my hearing is not perfect.

I thought file number three sounded a tiny bit more dynamic than the other two, while I thought file number 1 was the most musically satisfying, less dynamic and less jarring.

The difference is very small.

Of the same magnitude of the difference it was when I compared the Linn Klimax reneew against my WiiM pro / Rega dac R.

Maybe I liked the worst of the power supplies ? Or maybe it was the same powersupply on all three files ?

 

[canard]

Ok, here are my impressions.

The recordings really didn't sound good in any of the three cases. As someone already pointed out, it sounds like you recorded the loudspeakers with a microphone, but maybe that's not the case?. If this is an ADC recording directly from the line output of the WiiM you have used a bad recording or a bad ADC , which Ím sure its not the case. Anyway, - thanks for letting us do this listening experiment.

I used my loudspeakers during those tests. Having a cold right now so my hearing is not perfect.

I thought file number three sounded a tiny bit more dynamic than the other two, while I thought file number 1 was the most musically satisfying, less dynamic and less jarring, with a slightly more stable stereo image.

The difference is very small.

Of the same magnitude of the difference it was when I compared the Linn Klimax reneew against my WiiM pro / Rega dac R.

Maybe I liked the worst of the power supplies ? Or maybe it was the same powersupply on all three files ?

these files listened to on what source? ;-)

 

[Musician]

these files listened to on what source? ;-)

My WiiM pro with Apple iPad charger from 2012.

 

[canard]

in analogique from the pro?

 

[onlyoneme]

Did you guys at least realize, that these files were monaural?