WiiM Amp Pro

[Steve Woodhouse]

Well, I didn’t think I’d be reading yesterday’s details for the launch of the Ultra and mystery product, and deciding not to buy the Ultra. But that’s pretty much what I’ve decided to do. I think I’m be getting an Amp Pro.

Caveats. Firstly, I’ll be waiting for reviews. Shouldn’t be too difficult, as everywhere reviewed the old Amp, there’s a lot of noise about this, and it’s out in the US before the UK anyway.

Secondly, the price is excellent. So much cheaper than my original plan of an Ultra + Topping PA5 II, but the specs they published at the moment suggest that’s what we’re getting. In one box. For hundreds of pounds less.

Thirdly, due to the nature of my set up, and my needs, this will be at least ‘good enough’ to get my rebuilt system off the ground. If I find I want more, I can buy the Ultra and an amp in the future. Probably an Ultra Pro by then. The Amp Pro is something I’d certainly be able to find use for elsewhere in the house.

Good work, WiiM.

 

[MKUltra]

Meanwhile, I wanted to buy the WiiM Amp but now it makes no sense (unless major discounts are on the way, dropping the price from 369 to 299€) since a Pro version is coming, but WiiM moves the goalposts fast enough for me to consider just waiting for WiiM Amp Pro Plus or WiiM Amp Ultra, probably announced six month from now.

Edit: I read somewhere that a Pro Plus amp is in the works...

 

[Brantome]

Edit: I read somewhere that a Pro Plus amp is in the works...

That was a comment from a visitor to the Munich Show who says that he was told they’ll be doing in effect a marriage of the WiiM Amp Pro and an Ultra. WiiM haven’t confirmed that here (yet?)

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I must say, as a owner of the amp, this product is a bit disappointing.
Though I expect the owners of the pro streamer felt the same about the pro plus?

I was really hoping, that if the product was a new amplifier, it would increase it's power output.
I also don't see why they didn't put the screen on the amp as well. Could that be saved for an amp ultra?

This amp feels like it doesn't really fit in their product line.
If they make an amp ultra, would that have a different DAC than the DAC ultra? Etc...

My thoughts are this. The Amp was reviewed well, lots of comments about it being a game-changer, a market-disrupter, and a real threat to the established audio world…BUT.

But the one negative was that the amp wasn’t up to snuff in some instances, due to load dependency, which would have been solved if it were PFFB.

This iteration appears to have sorted that. It makes a ‘nearly perfect’ device ‘perfect’.

Now, of course, there’s no such thing. But for those wanting more ins and outs, and the ability to choose your own amp, there’s the Ultra.

 

[canard]

pffb reduces the impact of the load...but does not completely regulate this "variable" characteristic of this chip
(there is the fact of difficulty anticipating the complex loads of real life above 1k but quite simply the tests stick to 8ohm when we know how to cross much higher impedance peaks on the tweeters, taking part in the crossovers which are already delicate points ...)

ps
it is still surprising that the future amp pro is not equipped with the screen, and the small phono mm of the ultra, it would correspond quite well to this type of roof product for the very general public, and that we will have to wait for another iteration...

 

[onlyoneme]

It makes a ‘nearly perfect’ device ‘perfect’.

It is not "nearly perfect" and the PFFB added won't make it "perfect". Some design flaws will be reduced, but the PFFB does not transform 3255 into Purifi, for example.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

It is not "nearly perfect" and the PFFB added won't make it "perfect". Some design flaws will be reduced, but the PFFB does not transform 3255 into Purifi, for example.

Hence “perfect” in quotes.

We will, of course, wait for the measurements.

But what makes me laugh is the number of people trying to big up the issues, which were first noted in the review and measurements at Erin’s Audio Corner.

What’s making me laugh? He’s since gone on to do side-by-side checks against other amps using a number of speakers, including a pair of KEF Blade Metas, rrp £30,000, and he can’t hear a difference.

And yet some insist on pontificating as to what a disaster the Amp is.

Me? I’m happy with that level of ‘disaster’.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

pffb reduces the impact of the load...but does not completely regulate this "variable" characteristic of this chip
(there is the fact of difficulty anticipating the complex loads of real life above 1k but quite simply the tests stick to 8ohm when we know how to cross much higher impedance peaks on the tweeters, taking part in the crossovers which are already delicate points ...)

ps
it is still surprising that the future amp pro is not equipped with the screen, and the small phono mm of the ultra, it would correspond quite well to this type of roof product for the very general public, and that we will have to wait for another iteration...

And yet…

 

[wiimj]

Well, it feels good to have good measurement numbers. Many people said they can't tell the difference between wiim pro and pro plus. But i got the plus haha. I don't think I can hear the difference between amp and amp pro. But I will get the pro just to make me feel good.
When I compared my $200 smsl dac to $30 fx audio dac, I wasn't sure If I could always find out in a blind test. But it felt good to have a dac with much better measurement haha (like why I buy new golf clubs though I know they are most likely the same)

 

[onlyoneme]

Hence “perfect” in quotes.

We will, of course, wait for the measurements.

But what makes me laugh is the number of people trying to big up the issues, which were first noted in the review and measurements at Erin’s Audio Corner.

What’s making me laugh? He’s since gone on to do side-by-side checks against other amps using a number of speakers, including a pair of KEF Blade Metas, rrp £30,000, and he can’t hear a difference.

And yet some insist on pontificating as to what a disaster the Amp is.

Me? I’m happy with that level of ‘disaster’.

Some people perform their own tests and measurements. Others only read mainstream graphs on ASR. It makes a difference sometimes, but yeah, I'm happy with your happiness.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Some people perform their own tests and measurements. Others only read mainstream graphs on ASR. It makes a difference sometimes, but yeah, I'm happy with your happiness.

A reply which magically has absolutely nothing to do with the post it quoted.

 

[onlyoneme]

A reply which magically has absolutely nothing to do with the post it quoted.

Really? So it's a draw I would say.

 

[Wiimer]

Is the 62 watt and 122 watt not enough ?

WiiM Amp Streaming Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Amp streaming amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $299. I was pleasantly surprised by the good bit of weight this small box has. It will help it not slide with the weight of the speaker wires and such. Back panel shows...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yes, it is preferable to have a little more power for my application.

I connect the AVR pre-out to the LINE-IN of the WiiM amp and share a pair of speakers. For this reason, it is ideal that the power of the WiiM amp should be equal to or greater than that of the AVR.

 

[slartibartfast]

Yes, it is preferable to have a little more power for my application.

I connect the AVR pre-out to the LINE-IN of the WiiM amp and share a pair of speakers. For this reason, it is ideal that the power of the WiiM amp should be equal to or greater than that of the AVR.

Power isn't the same as gain. Maybe you would prefer the gain to be the same.

 

[harkpabst]

Power isn't the same as gain. Maybe you would prefer the gain to be the same.

Very true and, well, ideally the answer would probably be yes. But usually AVRs allow their line output level to be varied, typically +/-10 dB or more. Maxing out either way of this range could potentially introduce additional noise, but not necessarily.

Power might still be an issue, not because the AVR has too much in comparison, but if the power available from the WiiM Amp is objectively too little. The front speakers (apart from the active sub) usually have the highes power demand, but that's the same for two channel stereo, of course. But keeping in mind that twice the power gets you just 3 dB more SPL things are generally not that critical.

It is generally accepted that a 3 dB difference in SPL is what the untrained listener will usually perceive as a clearly audible difference (not twice the loudness).

It's worth repeating that many people do confuse gain and power, indeed. But I wouldn't expect @Wiimer to belong to this group.

 

[Wiimer]

@slartibartfast, @harkpabst,

Thank you guys for your advice. I may have been clueless about it...

Of course, the gain of the pre-out is adjusted with the AVR. However, there is now a 10dB difference between the front and surround speakers, and ideally I wanted to make the difference even smaller.

Before the WiiM amp (8 Ohm: 62W), I used Topping PA5 (8 Ohm: 48W) and TP RA3 (8 Ohm: 57W), but it seems that the adjustment range is gradually getting smaller.

 

[harkpabst]

@slartibartfast, @harkpabst,

Thank you guys for your advice. I may have been clueless about it...

Of course, the gain of the pre-out is adjusted with the AVR. However, there is now a 10dB difference between the front and surround speakers, and ideally I wanted to make the difference even smaller.

Before the WiiM amp (8 Ohm: 62W), I used Topping PA5 (8 Ohm: 48W) and TP RA3 (8 Ohm: 57W), but it seems that the adjustment range is gradually getting smaller.

Admittedly, I didn't follow your home theatre adventures not as closely as I should have. But usually the adjustable pre-out should be all you need to get front and rear speakers to the same level.

The WiiM Amp's line input should be set to 100%, unless the Amp.was too loud even at the lowest output setting of the AVR.

Ideally there should be a HT bypass switch, which is currently missing. Per-input volume control, which I usually criticise as not being helpful in most instances, can be used instead. Personally I would prefer the bypass switch if I was in the business of integrating an AVR at all.

The next question would be wether you connect the subwoofer to the AVR or to the WiiM. Things can get more complicated every day.

 

[Wiimer]

Admittedly, I didn't follow your home theatre adventures not as closely as I should have. But usually the adjustable pre-out should be all you need to get front and rear speakers to the same level.

The WiiM Amp's line input should be set to 100%, unless the Amp.was too loud even at the lowest output setting of the AVR.

Ideally there should be a HT bypass switch, which is currently missing. Per-input volume control, which I usually criticise as not being helpful in most instances, can be used instead. Personally I would prefer the bypass switch if I was in the business of integrating an AVR at all.

The next question would be wether you connect the subwoofer to the AVR or to the WiiM. Things can get more complicated every day.

Obviously, I lack knowledge of electrical engineering. I feel dizzy when see many numbers and symbols.

It's a pity that you don't have the slightest interest in AVRs.

By the way, I am now connected a SW to the WiiM amp and volume is 100%.

Thank you.

 

[D1N0]

still no official announcement on this?

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I may be retracting my earlier decision on buying the Amp Pro instead of the Ultra.

Having looked again at my budget, the saving isn’t as important (though obviously always welcome). Meanwhile, notwithstanding the points I made, and while Ultra + an amp might not be better, at least you don’t have all your eggs in one basket, and the two box solution does offer more flexibility.

Amp Pro first, then Ultra later in is also still a possibility.