Meet WiiM Ultra - The Digital Hub for Your Music

[harkpabst]

I did some measurements using a single sweep signal at different levels with the iMM-6 in REW and they all look very similar. So does level affect results significantly?

View attachment 7269

Not so much directly. The different graphs seem to be not completely equally spaced. This could be either due to compression (of the speakers or the mic) or simply because the level steps have not been exactly equal, I don't know. If you are after detecting compression effects, knowing the absolute level is at least helpful for means of comparison.

But since we are dealing with 2 channel audio and don't care about THX reference levels, there is no need for absolute level measurements, that's true.

I was thinking about something else in the first place. Some RC systems are using other signals to make sure there's enough acoustic energy in the room. But it doesn't really matter much in the context of this discussion, so I don't want to dive deeper in this topic.

 

[slartibartfast]

Not so much directly. The different graphs seem to be not completely equally spaced. This could be either due to compression (of the speakers or the mic) or simply because the level steps have not been exactly equal, I don't know. If you are after detecting compression effects, knowing the absolute level is at least helpful for means of comparison.

But since we are dealing with 2 channel audio and don't care about THX reference levels, there is no need for absolute level measurements, that's true.

I was thinking about something else in the first place. Some RC systems are using other signals to make sure there's enough acoustic energy in the room. But it doesn't really matter much in the context of this discussion, so I don't want to dive deeper in this topic.

Yes the lower 4 graphs seem to be equally spaced and the top one stands out as a smaller difference. I was using Squeezelite which I think uses 0.5dB per unit change at least at higher volume settings. Maybe that changes at lower levels. I was changing volume by 6 units for each graph which would fit with the 3dB gap between the top two graphs.

 

[Matterhorn]

I have checked the "questions spreadsheet" for headphone output specs but it's still blank. This is an important spec since it would allow users to potentially skip an external headphone amp. Has anyone seen those specs?

 

[FreakyKiwi]

I have checked the "questions spreadsheet" for headphone output specs but it's still blank. This is an important spec since it would allow users to potentially skip an external headphone amp. Has anyone seen those specs?

I'm sure it must vary based on the specific implementation but the specs state a TPA6120A2 which is a 1.5W HP amplifier.

TPA6120A2 data sheet, product information and support | TI.com

TI’s TPA6120A2 is a Stereo, 9.0- to 33.0-V, analog input headphone amplifier with 128 dB dynamic range. Find parameters, ordering and quality information

www.ti.com

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I have checked the "questions spreadsheet" for headphone output specs but it's still blank. This is an important spec since it would allow users to potentially skip an external headphone amp. Has anyone seen those specs?

As a slight aside, I’m keeping my Mini for headphone duties. I already have a Topping EX5 DAC/headphone amp, and as soon as the Mini gets 10-band EQ I’m set.

One EQ for each headphone - easy. If I used the Ultra for headphones too, I’d need to be turning the bass management on and off, room correction on and off, and changing EQ, every time I used it.

By keeping the mini, the Ultra just needs one setting.

I appreciate this won’t be for everyone, but as I already have a Mini and the EX5, it’s no extra cost.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

EQ for each headphone - easy. If I used the Ultra for headphones too, I’d need to be turning the bass management on and off, room correction on and off, and changing EQ, every time I used it.

One would hope that the headphone output would bypass these settings automatically.
This is why eq per output makes much more sense than the eq per input which had been implemented. I can't see the point of that.

 

[Mr Ee]

This is why eq per output makes much more sense than the eq per input which had been implemented. I can't see the point of that.

Whereas some others can
The option for both would, of course, be even better.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

No doubt.
It doesn't bother me either way at present as my only WiiM is dedicated to a single input and output.

The ultra would be a different case delivering headphone and amp/speaker output options each certainly with different eq profiles.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

One would hope that the headphone output would bypass these settings automatically.
This is why eq per output makes much more sense than the eq per input which had been implemented. I can't see the point of that.

My own desire would be for separate profiles, not unlike those on the old Harmony remotes.

You’d create a profile, as an example ‘Turntable on Speakers’. When you select that, the WiiM automatically selects phono in, analogue out (to amp and sub), bass management on, a specific EQ for your turntable and speakers, room correction on.

Create another one ‘streaming to Sennheisers’. The Ultra automatically switches to streaming in, headphone out, eq for your headphones, room correction off, bass management off.

And so on.

I feel there’s a great danger, with so many things going on, that people will leave the wrong thing on or off.

We already have PEQ, bass management, room correction, input, and output to select. It’s going to be this sort of thing that, if you’re listening to headphones over an external DAC/amp, you might leave room correction on, or room correction on, just as an example.

 

[d6jg]

My own desire would be for separate profiles, not unlike those on the old Harmony remotes.

You’d create a profile, as an example ‘Turntable on Speakers’. When you select that, the WiiM automatically selects phono in, analogue out (to amp and sub), bass management on, a specific EQ for your turntable and speakers, room correction on.

Create another one ‘streaming to Sennheisers’. The Ultra automatically switches to streaming in, headphone out, eq for your headphones, room correction off, bass management off.

And so on.

I feel there’s a great danger, with so many things going on, that people will leave the wrong thing on or off.

We already have PEQ, bass management, room correction, input, and output to select. It’s going to be this sort of thing that, if you’re listening to headphones over an external DAC/amp, you might leave room correction on, or room correction on, just as an example.

You raise a very good point. Any kind of EQ or Room Correction can only be appropriate to the usage at that point. Headphones usage being completely different to speakers in a room.
I assume on the WiiM amp speaker circuits are muted when headphones are plugged in? What’s the situation on the Ultra are both headphone and line out live at the same time?

 

[Brantome]

You raise a very good point. Any kind of EQ or Room Correction can only be appropriate to the usage at that point. Headphones usage being completely different to speakers in a room.
I assume on the WiiM amp speaker circuits are muted when headphones are plugged in? What’s the situation on the Ultra are both headphone and line out live at the same time?

The Amp doesn’t have a headphone output

 

[d6jg]

The Amp doesn’t have a headphone output

Thanks for clarifying. Do you know the situation with Ultra?

 

[Wiimer]

My own desire would be for separate profiles, not unlike those on the old Harmony remotes.

You’d create a profile, as an example ‘Turntable on Speakers’. When you select that, the WiiM automatically selects phono in, analogue out (to amp and sub), bass management on, a specific EQ for your turntable and speakers, room correction on.

Create another one ‘streaming to Sennheisers’. The Ultra automatically switches to streaming in, headphone out, eq for your headphones, room correction off, bass management off.

And so on.

I feel there’s a great danger, with so many things going on, that people will leave the wrong thing on or off.

We already have PEQ, bass management, room correction, input, and output to select. It’s going to be this sort of thing that, if you’re listening to headphones over an external DAC/amp, you might leave room correction on, or room correction on, just as an example.

Yes, that is an important request that has been around for some time and I am all for it. Since @WiiM Support hit the good button on your post, it may be more likely to happen in the future.

However, as @d6jg suggested, I don't know if Ultra can control two different profiles for simultaneous headphone output.
(Since Ultra has a headphone amp, I believe it can do simultaneous output, but Team has not mentioned that yet.)

 

[Brantome]

Thanks for clarifying. Do you know the situation with Ultra?

Yeah, it’s got a headphone amp as well - see the q&a spreadsheet in the thread opener

 

[d6jg]

Yeah, it’s got a headphone amp as well - see the q&a spreadsheet in the thread opener

I meant can it work simultaneously with line out?

 

[SeeTeeShock]

 

[rccarguy]

I don't know why 3.5mm jack is on this device. High quality headphones have 6.5mm connector

 

[Achim1811]

I don't know why 3.5mm jack is on this device. High quality headphones have 6.5mm connector

High quality headphones should be driven by high quality headphone stages. What the hack do you expect?

 

[Brantome]

I don't know why 3.5mm jack is on this device. High quality headphones have 6.5mm connector

Is there any evidence (fragility apart), that a 6.5mm jack performs any better than a 3.5mm one?

 

[harkpabst]

I don't know why 3.5mm jack is on this device. High quality headphones have 6.5mm connector

If your headphones are so highly resolving that a 3.5 to 6.3 mm adapter spoils the sound completely, you need a dedicated headphone amp 6 times the price of the Ultra, I guess.