My Ultra tests

But I don’t get why you’d want to have a worse-measuring product—
Let us cut you off right there, because we know how this argument goes. And goes. And goes. And keeps on going. Here’s the deal: we are free to believe what we want. So are you. If your belief system leads you to devices that perform well by standard metrics, cool. If not, that’s also cool. There’s room for both viewpoints. Read “Schiit Happened, The Objectivist/Subjectivist Synthesis.” And even then you may think we’re entirely full of it. And that’s cool.
 
But I don’t get why you’d want to have a worse-measuring product—
Let us cut you off right there, because we know how this argument goes. And goes. And goes. And keeps on going. Here’s the deal: we are free to believe what we want. So are you. If your belief system leads you to devices that perform well by standard metrics, cool. If not, that’s also cool. There’s room for both viewpoints. Read “Schiit Happened, The Objectivist/Subjectivist Synthesis.” And even then you may think we’re entirely full of it. And that’s cool.

No, you’ve got a fair point, and have asked a fair question.

Why would you want a worse measuring device?

I’m going to bring something in from video, and resolution. For the following, please ignore considerations other than resolution (OLED v LCD, etc.).

Basically, if you’re watching a 1080p image, the ‘sweet spot’ for viewing distance is 3x the height of the screen. What that means is, for someone with (what Americans call) 20:20 vision, if you sit closer than that distance, you’ll possibly start to see the pixel and line structure. If you sit further away, you won’t get the full benefit of the extra detail.

For 4k that’s 1.5 x screen heights.

For 8k it’s 0.75 x screen heights.

Now, most people won’t sit closer than 3x screen heights from a 55” HD tv. A but closer if you have 65”.

If you have a 65” set, it’s vanishingly unlikely that you’ll sit close enough.

So here’s the question (in answer to yours).

If you can buy a 4k TV for £1,000 why would you want to spend £10,000 on an 8k?

It’s money for detail you’ll never see. It’s £9,000 extra for bragging rights.

If you care about prime of ownership, that’s fine, and that’s up to you.

But please don’t be surprised by those who are happy to stick with a £1,000 set, nor with their insistence that you can’t see more resolution. Because they’re right.

And by the way, those limits to human vision, they’ve been discovered through extensive scientific research and testing techniques.

Now, if you’ve ever flown on a plane, I have a question for you. Are you happy with the pilot’s eye-sight testing? Or do you trust the experts who’ve discovered the limits and carried out the tests?

Because the tests for the limits of how much distortion we can hear, how much noise we can hear, and what frequency range/fluctuations from flat, are carried out under exactly the same criteria.

That’s just my way of looking at it.

I don’t care if my pilot has better than 20:20. The display in his cockpit was designed to be read by someone with 20:20, anything more is a waste of resolution.
 
No, you’ve got a fair point, and have asked a fair question.

Why would you want a worse measuring device?

I’m going to bring something in from video, and resolution. For the following, please ignore considerations other than resolution (OLED v LCD, etc.).

Basically, if you’re watching a 1080p image, the ‘sweet spot’ for viewing distance is 3x the height of the screen. What that means is, for someone with (what Americans call) 20:20 vision, if you sit closer than that distance, you’ll possibly start to see the pixel and line structure. If you sit further away, you won’t get the full benefit of the extra detail.

For 4k that’s 1.5 x screen heights.

For 8k it’s 0.75 x screen heights.

Now, most people won’t sit closer than 3x screen heights from a 55” HD tv. A but closer if you have 65”.

If you have a 65” set, it’s vanishingly unlikely that you’ll sit close enough.

So here’s the question (in answer to yours).

If you can buy a 4k TV for £1,000 why would you want to spend £10,000 on an 8k?

It’s money for detail you’ll never see. It’s £9,000 extra for bragging rights.

If you care about prime of ownership, that’s fine, and that’s up to you.

But please don’t be surprised by those who are happy to stick with a £1,000 set, nor with their insistence that you can’t see more resolution. Because they’re right.

And by the way, those limits to human vision, they’ve been discovered through extensive scientific research and testing techniques.

Now, if you’ve ever flown on a plane, I have a question for you. Are you happy with the pilot’s eye-sight testing? Or do you trust the experts who’ve discovered the limits and carried out the tests?

Because the tests for the limits of how much distortion we can hear, how much noise we can hear, and what frequency range/fluctuations from flat, are carried out under exactly the same criteria.

That’s just my way of looking at it.

I don’t care if my pilot has better than 20:20. The display in his cockpit was designed to be read by someone with 20:20, anything more is a waste of resolution.
Steve, I just took that content from their website. They were comparing modi that has better measurement against multibit with worst measurements. From what they are saying multibit despite not good in measurements it has better sound on their entry modi.
 
Steve, I just took that content from their website. They were comparing modi that has better measurement against multibit with worst measurements. From what they are saying multibit despite not good in measurements it has better sound on their entry modi.
I can confirm that. Modi+ is good but MMB2 is better. Note though that you cannot compare MMB2 to anything unless MMB2 has been on for a while (days) - R/2R designs need temperature stabilization. More so with Yggdrasil+.
 
@Steve Woodhouse I agree with what you said those 4K make sense if you sit close so does 8k but the so called retina clarity won’t count if sit further. It was only wow factor to me if I sit close but bet are off if sit far.
 
Steve, I just took that content from their website. They were comparing modi that has better measurement against multibit with worst measurements. From what they are saying multibit despite not good in measurements it has better sound on their entry modi.
It's really hard for R2R devices to compete with delta-sigma in terms of common measurements.
 
I can confirm that. Modi+ is good but MMB2 is better. Note though that you cannot compare MMB2 to anything unless MMB2 has been on for a while (days) - R/2R designs need temperature stabilization. More so with Yggdrasil+.
Does it have better measuring than modi plus? If subjective using just ear it won’t count because few in here just believe in subjective but mostly prove your point is better by providing us data to back up your claim. I have both neither my cup of tea.
 
Does it have better measuring than modi plus? If subjective using just ear it won’t count because few in here just believe in subjective but mostly prove your point is better by providing us data to back up your claim. I have both neither my cup of tea.
I could check but have no interest in doing so, but probably the Modi+ measures better. I know the MMB2 sounds more like real live music, and a Yggdrasil+ even more so. I did measurements in a former life, I have ears, I attend live concerts - I go by my ears and care less for what anyone tells me. Yes, of course reasonable measurements are important, but measurements are specific parameters missing many other aspects. I do me, you do you.
 
I could check but have no interest in doing so, but probably the Modi+ measures better. I know the MMB2 sounds more like real live music, and a Yggdrasil+ even more so. I did measurements in a former life, I have ears, I attend live concerts - I go by my ears and care less for what anyone tells me. Yes, of course reasonable measurements are important, but measurements are specific parameters missing many other aspects. I do me, you do you.
 

Oh ASR... those are old products. Both Modi+ and MMB2 are newer than those...

And... when listening critically... do not do fast A/B switching. To appreciate differences it takes to listen at some length to either product and look for micro dynamics, instrument separation and that sense that the instruments/voices are real. I do not liste to measurements, I listem to recordings. Piano tracks or small ensembles are best for that.
 
ASR won’t pass multibit with flying color. He stated those high frequency your hearing you call live are distortion as it shows in measurements.
 
How can you convince us it’s live performance when the measurements shows distortion? You translate distortion as live sound, ohhh wow !!
 
ASR won’t pass multibit with flying color. He stated those high frequency your hearing you call live are distortion as it shows in measurements.
Of course he does, and people believe it. I do me, you do you. :)
 
Your information has no merit because you can’t prove your claim. Audioholic say your thought are meaningless unless otherwise you prove it.
 
Proof? Let me guess none.

Proof?!? Is this a mathematical theorem needing a proof? In mathematical terms... audio playback is modeled as a system of linear equations with a specific matrix defining the system. Current measurements fill a few entries of that matrix but leave many others unfilled and there lies the issue - the matrix cannot be inverted to yield a solution.

Proof is in the hearing. I do me, you do you. :)
 
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