Room Correction... I like it!

[slartibartfast]

This can be tested with REW acoustic reference feature? (I know using HDMI can, but on a regular hifi?)

Not sure what REW acoustic reference is but you can check the effect of the delay using the RTA or normal sweep measurement.

 

[harkpabst]

That's good but it's not as accurate and it's available on WiiM amp only.

Yes, because sub out is available with the WiiM AMP only (and WiiM Ultra and WiiM AMP). As long as the streaming DAC doesn't have a separate subwoofer output, there's nothing that could use further time alignment.

Regarding accuracy, isn't 1 ms step width sufficient? It's good for 34 cm steps at frequencies where the typical wavelength is usually >= 400 cm. How much changes the relative distance to mains and subs if you just move your head 20 cm to the left or the right?

Personally I am not convinced that time alignment outside the crossover region is all that important for correcting room effects.

 

[merifon]

Yes, because sub out is available with the WiiM AMP only (and WiiM Ultra and WiiM AMP). As long as the streaming DAC doesn't have a separate subwoofer output, there's nothing that could use further time alignment.

Regarding accuracy, isn't 1 ms step width sufficient? It's good for 34 cm steps at frequencies where the typical wavelength is usually >= 400 cm. How much changes the relative distance to mains and subs if you just move your head 20 cm to the left or the right?

Personally I am not convinced that time alignment outside the crossover region is all that important for correcting room effects.

Accuracy is enough but requires a lot of manual work that Dirac system does automatically and very well. Don't remember if phase it's finely adjustable also. There are also huge differences from left to right channel, above all if one sub is used. Dirac manages all speakers timing and not subwoofer only
Yes, time alignment and phase are crucial for subwoofer crossover region. I don't remember what Dirac does for higher frequency also. Personally I prefer coax speakers like my kef ls50 meta, due to the lower parallax in the position of the drivers, they are less prone to receiving interference from early reflections. It's a sort of my bias but is supported by measures.
Regarding measures done at 20cm distance, I got narrow hole in 70Hz zone on right ear only position and no hole on left ear position. Cross reflection from the walls can make difference even from one side of the head to the other,despite wavelengths.

 

[harkpabst]

Accuracy is enough but requires a lot of manual work that Dirac system does automatically and very well. Don't remember if phase it's finely adjustable also. There are also huge differences from left to right channel, above all if one sub is used. Dirac manages all speakers timing and not subwoofer only

It's a matter of philosophy or - keeping it to a more practical level - a matter of approach if automated room correction software should even try to determine the distance to each and every speaker. Most of the typical AVR systems regularly fail doing so.

I love the way my Lyngdorf Amp allows to enter distance values for each speaker and each subwoofer (up to two of them) manually and in addition allows to add an amplifier/DSP delay for the sub. But in the end it's very unusual to have hugely different distances to the main speakers in a 2 channel stereo setup. A single sub might not be placed in the ideal space right in the middle between the main speakers, but in this case the maximum crossover frequency is pretty limited, as the delay of the sub with respect to the mains cannot be perfectly corrected for both speakers, anyway.

Personally I prefer coax speakers like my kef ls50 meta, due to the lower parallax in the position of the drivers, they are less prone to receiving interference from early reflections. It's a sort of my bias but is supported by measures.

No need to convince me here. Finally, it's all down to a very symmetrical off-axis response. A coaxial design is potentially superior here, even more so, if the baffle is very symmetrical and offers highly rounded edges. LS50 (Meta) may be highly regarded, but they are still underestimated by most.

 

[merifon]

A single sub might not be placed in the ideal space right in the middle between the main speakers, but in this case the maximum crossover frequency is pretty limited, as the delay of the sub with respect to the mains cannot be perfectly corrected for both speakers, anyway.

Especially around crossover wavelengths, it's the distance from listening point to each speaker that matters from time point of view, regardless they are on left or right side. A single pulse at 70Hz has to reach your ears at the same instant/phase and this can be easily corrected since sound is a pressure wave moving towards listener. If the subwoofer is on the same position of one of the main speakers and the other is symmetrically placed I don't see particular difficulties.
I would be curious to hear RoomPerfect results and Dirac on same environment.

 

[MacPi]

I'm not sure, if I understood the previous answers correctly. I have a question: does the RC only work in the analog domain or if I connect an external DAC to the Wiim using coaxial output, will the sound will also be corrected? or through the digital link will output always be the bit-perfect?

 

[Smartplug]

I'm not sure, if I understood the previous answers correctly. I have a question: does the RC only work in the analog domain or if I connect an external DAC to the Wiim using coaxial output, will the sound will also be corrected? or through the digital link will output always be the bit-perfect?

I have pro connected on external dac via optical. RC work on external dac. Switching RC on and off could easily tell.

 

[Brantome]

I'm not sure, if I understood the previous answers correctly. I have a question: does the RC only work in the analog domain or if I connect an external DAC to the Wiim using coaxial output, will the sound will also be corrected? or through the digital link will output always be the bit-perfect?

RC works irrespective of whether you’re using an analog or digital output. Given it generates a set of PEQ values which are applied to the incoming signal then it’s no longer a bit perfect copy of that signal. However, I personally don’t get hung up on “bit perfect” which I interpret as the device not making any unwanted changes to the signal which WiiM devices don’t - however if you choose to use RC, apply PEQ, reduce or limit volume etc then you’re choosing to make changes to the incoming signal to suit your preferences

 

[merifon]

However, I personally don’t get hung up on “bit perfect” which I interpret as the device not making any unwanted changes to the signal which WiiM devices don’t

I agree with... The absolute bit perfectness, extending the concept in some way to the analog integralists of untouchable signal path, it would make sense if you listen in the same room and in the same chair of the producer did the master. In any other case, you'll finish to listen to something different, so make sense the tentative to aligning to a reference...

 

[chutch15]

Can I assume that Room Correction is pointless for outdoor speakers?

 

[Smartplug]

Can I assume that Room Correction is pointless for outdoor speakers?

 

[MCG555]

Can I assume that Room Correction is pointless for outdoor speakers?

Not necessarily! As long the speaker is able to fulfill the asked correction…

 

[AndyB]

In all this use of room correction to rectify room idiosyncrasies, I have been amazed at just how the correction can vary from place to place. A shift of 15cm can have a dramatic effect. Also, the frequency curve is more irregular the closer to a wall one takes the measurements.

 

[Aquarius]

I’ve tested it for about an hour and I’m a bit unsure if I can trust the measurements and whether the correction actually improves things.

My setup is connected as follows:
WiiM Pro
Optical
DAC
RCA
Integrated amplifier
Sub via regular preout (stereo)
Speakers + sub

One thing that puzzled me is that I seem to get the same measurement results whether the sub is on or off. It’s crossed over at 50Hz, and the measurements show a peak there. However, the peak is just as big when the sub is off.

I’ve set the settings to the BK curve and no correction from 200Hz. The measurement looks like this:



After correction, it looks like this:



The correction has removed the peak in the bass area, and there’s no doubt the sound is different. However, I’m not sure if I like it better. What makes me a bit uneasy is that the measurements were identical with and without the sub, making me question if the room correction is accurate enough before possibly using a UMIK microphone or something similar.

Any experiences or input?

 

[Wiimer]

I’ve tested it for about an hour and I’m a bit unsure if I can trust the measurements and whether the correction actually improves things.

My setup is connected as follows:
WiiM Pro
Optical
DAC
RCA
Integrated amplifier
Sub via regular preout (stereo)
Speakers + sub

One thing that puzzled me is that I seem to get the same measurement results whether the sub is on or off. It’s crossed over at 50Hz, and the measurements show a peak there. However, the peak is just as big when the sub is off.

I’ve set the settings to the BK curve and no correction from 200Hz. The measurement looks like this:
View attachment 9726


After correction, it looks like this:
View attachment 9727


The correction has removed the peak in the bass area, and there’s no doubt the sound is different. However, I’m not sure if I like it better. What makes me a bit uneasy is that the measurements were identical with and without the sub, making me question if the room correction is accurate enough before possibly using a UMIK microphone or something similar.

Any experiences or input?

If you get such results, there are two main possible causes.

1. the built-in microphone is not picking up enough test sweeps below 50 Hz.

2. the main speakers and subwoofer have similar low-frequency characteristics.

 

[Aquarius]

If you get such results, there are two main possible causes.

1. the built-in microphone is not picking up enough test sweeps below 50 Hz.

2. the main speakers and subwoofer have similar low-frequency characteristics.

Thanks for the reply

1. Thats a possibility. Its a iPhone 14, 10 months old. But phone-mics arent the best for this use.

2. Speakers are floorstanding Triangle Borea BR08, and if to trust external measurements the should have a roll off from around 45-50, not a rise. Sub is Jamo Sub800.

Tone-controles on the amplifier is deactivated.

 

[WiiM Support]

Thanks for the reply

1. Thats a possibility. Its a iPhone 14, 10 months old. But phone-mics arent the best for this use.

2. Speakers are floorstanding Triangle Borea BR08, and if to trust external measurements the should have a roll off from around 45-50, not a rise. Sub is Jamo Sub800.

Tone-controles on the amplifier is deactivated.

Hi Aquarius, Team

The current Room Correction (RC) does not adjust frequencies below the crossover frequency, regardless of your selected adjustable frequency range. We may revisit this in a future release.

Here are some ongoing improvements for the RC:

• Separate PEQ for left and right channels
• Automatic measurement of subwoofer latency and phase (time alignment)
• Automatic level matching for the subwoofer
• Automatic setting of the crossover frequency

Please stay tuned for updates!

 

[slartibartfast]

I’ve tested it for about an hour and I’m a bit unsure if I can trust the measurements and whether the correction actually improves things.

My setup is connected as follows:
WiiM Pro
Optical
DAC
RCA
Integrated amplifier
Sub via regular preout (stereo)
Speakers + sub

One thing that puzzled me is that I seem to get the same measurement results whether the sub is on or off. It’s crossed over at 50Hz, and the measurements show a peak there. However, the peak is just as big when the sub is off.

I’ve set the settings to the BK curve and no correction from 200Hz. The measurement looks like this:
View attachment 9726


After correction, it loo

Hi Aquarius, Team

The current Room Correction (RC) does not adjust frequencies below the crossover frequency, regardless of your selected adjustable frequency range. We may revisit this in a future release.

Here are some ongoing improvements for the RC:

• Separate PEQ for left and right channels
• Automatic measurement of subwoofer latency and phase (time alignment)
• Automatic level matching for the subwoofer
• Automatic setting of the crossover frequency

Please stay tuned for updates!

It adjust frequencies below the crossover frequency for the Amp. Is the pro different?

 

[Wiimer]

Thanks for the reply

1. Thats a possibility. Its a iPhone 14, 10 months old. But phone-mics arent the best for this use.

2. Speakers are floorstanding Triangle Borea BR08, and if to trust external measurements the should have a roll off from around 45-50, not a rise. Sub is Jamo Sub800.

Tone-controles on the amplifier is deactivated.

Therefore, my response was off the mark.

 

[harkpabst]

It adjust frequencies below the crossover frequency for the Amp. Is the pro different?

The WiiM Pro doesn't even have a subwoofer output.

@Aquarius has the sub attached to the amplifier's pre outs, so the WiiM Pro doesn't even know that there's a sub. There's no crossover frequency in the WiiM domain, so RC will try to correct whatever is measured within the configured frequency band, which defaults to 40 to 4000 Hz.