UMIK-1 arrived

[khuntim]

UMIK-1 in the house, I downloaded the calibration files and used the iPad with the microphone pointed directly at the speakers sitting on the coffee table using the supplied tripod closer to speaker level than ear level. used 30hz-500hz, crossover 90hz, B&K

So far I found myself turning the sub down 3 to 6db, it's a little boomy for my taste. I probably have something wrong.

mid-field listening. My ears are about 2m/6.5ft from the speakers. REL Tzero mkiii, small 6.5" I think.

I'm trying the optical input but I've also used the AUX input to the speakers.

I'm confused on what volume the Ultra should be when I calibrate, I set Ultra at 80 and the speakers maybe 60%. If I use the speaker volume, the subwoofer stays the same level and that doesn't work.

Mostly background listening or TV use, always looking for a speaker upgrade. Headphones more often for music.

The Shanling S0 speakers look interesting, not able to hear them. The Adam D3V do not have a remote and no wake-on-signal.

https://en.shanling.com/product/465

the Amp Ultra with some passive speakers seemed interesting, not too much that would fit this space. the shelf is 13"/33cm deep.

I tested with a few tracks, and Tidal wasn't cooperating tonight lol

https://tidal.com/playlist/18e0c9fc-3985-4567-bf44-14ca324facb6

 

[EddNog]

Your summing looks reasonably decent at the 90Hz crossover point, although there's a null just above it close to 100Hz, so you may wish to try manually adjusting the speaker/sub delay up or down a few milliseconds to see if you can reduce that null. For your massive dip at ~55Hz, this is likely caused by SBIR cancellation at the main listening position off of the wall behind you--perchance you are sitting close to 5 feet from the wall behind you? Alternatively, is it possible your Rel sub is placed approximately 5ft from the wall behind the system? Either one of these scenarios can result in an SBIR dip around 55Hz or so. The dips around 500Hz and 750Hz or so are likely driven by ceiling interactions.

-Ed

 

[harkpabst]

The massively massive peak at 25 Hz looks like the lower frequency limit for RoomFit was set too high. This should surely be tamed.

 

[EddNog]

The massively massive peak at 25 Hz looks like the lower frequency limit for RoomFit was set too high. This should surely be tamed.

Plant your flag at the peak of Mt. Bass!!!

-Ed

 

[harkpabst]

Plant your flag at the peak of Mt. Bass!!!

All your bass are belong to us!

 

[khuntim]

The massively massive peak at 25 Hz looks like the lower frequency limit for RoomFit was set too high. This should surely be tamed.

Was set for 30-500hz, I didn't think a 6.5" woofer would get close to 30hz? I can set at 20hz and try again..

 

[khuntim]

Your summing looks reasonably decent at the 90Hz crossover point, although there's a null just above it close to 100Hz, so you may wish to try manually adjusting the speaker/sub delay up or down a few milliseconds to see if you can reduce that null. For your massive dip at ~55Hz, this is likely caused by SBIR cancellation at the main listening position off of the wall behind you--perchance you are sitting close to 5 feet from the wall behind you? Alternatively, is it possible your Rel sub is placed approximately 5ft from the wall behind the system? Either one of these scenarios can result in an SBIR dip around 55Hz or so. The dips around 500Hz and 750Hz or so are likely driven by ceiling interactions.

-Ed

I used the automatic sub delay. wall is right behind me, small room. sub is inches from the wall under the audio shelf. fit by 1mm.

Still not positive what volume the Ultra should be set at when i run Roomfit. can't use speaker volume if the sub volume stays the same.

Thanks for looking.

 

[EddNog]

I used the automatic sub delay. wall is right behind me, small room. sub is inches from the wall under the audio shelf. fit by 1mm.

Still not positive what volume the Ultra should be set at when i run Roomfit. can't use speaker volume if the sub volume stays the same.

Thanks for looking.

The automatic sync is pointless because it uses the mic inside the WiiM and not in your phone. If your main listening position is significantly different distance from the sub than WiiM, the auto sync is completely off. WiiM needs to correct this stupendously idiotic design. Additionally, the granularity of the sync is far too coarse; 1 whole ms is more than a foot, or almost 35cm in distance. There’s a reason why miniDSP allows timing adjustments to the hundredth of a millisecond. At least let’s get .1ms granularity for some semblance of accuracy.

Take the distance between your sub to the WiiM (a) and the sub to your main listening position (b), subtract (a) from (b), divide by either 34.3cm or 13.5inches, and then take that and add or subtract it from the auto-sync value (depends whether you’re closer to the sub, or if the WiiM is closer to the sub).

-Ed

 

[khuntim]

The automatic sync is pointless because it uses the mic inside the WiiM and not in your phone. If your main listening position is significantly different distance from the sub than WiiM, the auto sync is completely off. WiiM needs to correct this stupendously idiotic design. Additionally, the granularity of the sync is far too coarse; 1 whole ms is more than a foot, or almost 35cm in distance. There’s a reason why miniDSP allows timing adjustments to the hundredth of a millisecond. At least let’s get .1ms granularity for some semblance of accuracy.

Take the distance between your sub to the WiiM (a) and the sub to your main listening position (b), subtract (a) from (b), divide by either 34.3cm or 13.5inches, and then take that and add or subtract it from the auto-sync value (depends whether you’re closer to the sub, or if the WiiM is closer to the sub).

-Ed

sub is right below the Wiim, 60cm/2ft. from the sub to my ears is 230cm/7.5ft

So use the built-in mic, then adjust? didn't know the Wiim had a mic.

when I go to manual setting, it only allows sub or main speakers adjust.

 

[EddNog]

sub is right below the Wiim, 60cm/2ft. from the sub to my ears is 230cm/7.5ft

So use the built-in mic, then adjust? didn't know the Wiim had a mic.

when I go to manual setting, it only allows sub or main speakers adjust.

View attachment 25368

It doesn’t let us pick the attached or phone mic. This is the thing I was saying that LinkPlay/WiiM needs to fix.

Okay so here’s the math; 230cm-60cm=170 cm, then 170cm/34.3cm=4.956 ms, so the time for the sub to reach your main listening position should be 17ms, not 12ms. Okay, now we need to know what distance each of the speakers is from the WiiM and what distance is each speaker from your main listening position, so we can calculate the adjustment for them (remember they are also measured by auto-sync using the WiiM’s mic and not your phone’s from the main listening position). Once we make that adjustment, we can figure out the right amount to delay the speakers.

-Ed

 

[khuntim]

With a tape from tweeter to my ear is 230cm, from the front of the sub to ears is 240cm.

I am using UMIK-1 not phone.

changing to manual settings I can only adjust sub or speaker latency, so I set sub at 15ms, that makes the speakers 0, didn't see a way to adjust both?

changed to 20hz-750hz, going to listen.

 

[EddNog]

With a tape from tweeter to my ear is 230cm, from the front of the sub to ears is 240cm.

I am using UMIK-1 not phone.

changing to manual settings I can only adjust sub or speaker latency, so I set sub at 15ms, that makes the speakers 0, didn't see a way to adjust both?

changed to 20hz-750hz, going to listen.

View attachment 25369
View attachment 25370

I repeat to you again, even if you attach an external mic, it does not use it for the automatic sub sync. It will use it for RoomFit™, but not for the sub sync. Auto-sync currently uses mic inside the WiiM.

What is the distance from each speaker to the WiiM?

-Ed

 

[khuntim]

I repeat to you again, even if you attach an external mic, it does not use it for the automatic sub sync. It will use it for RoomFit™, but not for the sub sync. Auto-sync currently uses mic inside the WiiM.

What is the distance from each speaker to the WiiM?

-Ed

Right speaker 32cm Left 106cm

Thanks again!

 

[EddNog]

Right speaker 32cm Left 106cm

Thanks again!

Okay so the right speaker hits the WiiM first; its distance is 32cm to the WiiM and it shows a 2ms delay. That makes sense since 2ms is about 27cm and we know the WiiM is only accurate to the nearest whole ms (3ms is 40.5cm which is too much). You measure 230cm from the speakers to your main listening position, a difference of 230cm-32cm=198cm, and 198cm/34.3cm=5.773ms, so we can say the true delay to the main listening position is more like 6ms. We previously estimated 17ms delay from the sub to your main listening position. The delay to the speakers should be 11ms versus the sub.

-Ed

 

[khuntim]

Okay so the right speaker hits the WiiM first; its distance is 32cm to the WiiM and it shows a 2ms delay. That makes sense since 2ms is about 27cm and we know the WiiM is only accurate to the nearest whole ms (3ms is 40.5cm which is too much). You measure 230cm from the speakers to your main listening position, a difference of 230cm-32cm=198cm, and 198cm/34.3cm=5.773ms, so we can say the true delay to the main listening position is more like 6ms. We previously estimated 17ms delay from the sub to your main listening position. The delay to the speakers should be 11ms versus the sub.

-Ed

Sorry, confused on this. I am in the subwoofer settings/syncing subwoofer & speakers/manual delay adjustment.

there is also Sync Audio.

under Sync Audio/Manual Sync (Manually adjust the latency of your speakers audio) it's set for 2ms.

under Subwoofer/Subwoofer & Speakers Sync/Manual delay adjustment I can only set one adjustment, the other goes to 0ms.

set Subwoofer for any value, speakers go to 0ms, set Main Speakers for any value and subwoofer goes to 0ms

 

[khuntim]

The massively massive peak at 25 Hz looks like the lower frequency limit for RoomFit was set too high. This should surely be tamed.

massive peak at 25hz with 6.5" woofer? I guess the room. walls are concrete. I did lower to 20hz, still working on it. thanks

 

[dominikz]

If you have MMM enabled in RoomFit the 25Hz peak could just be noise in the measurement. Try increasing the volume and disabling MMM and see if the peak remains.

 

[harkpabst]

Worst case it could also be some furniture resonating, a very non-linear effect. In this case decreasing the volume (and disabling MMM) would be the proof (if the peak goes away at lower levels).

 

[EddNog]

Sorry, confused on this. I am in the subwoofer settings/syncing subwoofer & speakers/manual delay adjustment.

there is also Sync Audio.

under Sync Audio/Manual Sync (Manually adjust the latency of your speakers audio) it's set for 2ms.

under Subwoofer/Subwoofer & Speakers Sync/Manual delay adjustment I can only set one adjustment, the other goes to 0ms.

set Subwoofer for any value, speakers go to 0ms, set Main Speakers for any value and subwoofer goes to 0ms

In Subwoofer settings, set speaker delay to 11ms.

-Ed

 

[khuntim]

Sounds a lot better, it's a huge improvement. I wonder why the peaks and dips between 60-80hz?

Tried MMM this run: