Meet WiiM Ultra - The Digital Hub for Your Music

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I’d question the apparently automatic belief that DSD is ‘better’ than traditional digital.

Since no one said they had such an "automatic belief" at all here, I'd question why you think that even exists.
Not every thread needs to go in the direction of "what's best" or someone's supposed fool hardy beliefs about what's best.
It's OK for things to be different, i.e. PCM and DSD, and/or the mastering choices or even the original tape source used for any given reissue, and for any given person to then prefer one over the other, without being attacked for their supposed gullibility, lack of technical knowledge, or alleged "automatic belief" system of what's better.
This "apparent automatic belief" accusation is just another ASR groupthink quip, you sound like a broken record.
 
Since no one said they had such an "automatic belief" at all here, I'd question why you think that even exists.
Not every thread needs to go in the direction of "what's best" or someone's supposed fool hardy beliefs about what's best.
It's OK for things to be different, i.e. PCM and DSD, and/or the mastering choices or even the original tape source used for any given reissue, and for any given person to then prefer one over the other, without being attacked for their supposed gullibility, lack of technical knowledge, or alleged "automatic belief" system of what's better.
This "apparent automatic belief" accusation is just another ASR groupthink quip, you sound like a broken record.
Why would you buy a DSD if you didn't think it was better?
 
The point was the WiiM device itself does not yet have the ability to transcode DSD to PCM, it has to happen on the server side prior to the WiiM endpoint receiving the data stream.
LMS definitely does that as does Roon, and I'd imagine most good DLNA/UPnP servers as well, so there isn't any great need for an endpoint like a WiiM device to have that capability, but it was nonetheless requested by end users and has been on the road map for almost 2 years now.
Why do you believe this - that WiiM Pro / Plus / Amp / Ultra (each with a Quad-core A53 and 512MB RAM) isn't capable as a "server" to transcode DSD to PCM (if that is how WiiM eventually approaches DSD support)??
 
Why do you believe this - that WiiM Pro / Plus / Amp / Ultra (each with a Quad-core A53 and 512MB RAM) isn't capable as a "server" to transcode DSD to PCM (if that is how WiiM eventually approaches DSD support)??
He didn't say it wasn't capable just it isn't capable yet. Even an old Raspberry Pi 3B has 1GB RAM though.
 
Why would you buy a DSD if you didn't think it was better?

I'd buy an SACD reissue if the tape source and or mastering job is better, or more specifically, if I either don't yet own that album on CD, or the CD version I have sounds mediocre. Plenty of the earliest CDs I own are exactly that, and so too are later ones that suffer from the loudness wars and were mastered with too much compression and/or peak limiting. A boutique mastering job and careful tape source selection will yield a very different and better sounding result.

There are of course instances where that can't really help, for example an already great mastering job on an original 16-bit/44.1kHz recording such as Dire Straits On Every Street. I bought that one on SACD only because I'm a collector, and it rounded out the Dire Straits catalog, I didn't expect it would sound better because the original mastering was already quite good, thats a very nice sounding CD.
 
I'd buy an SACD reissue if the tape source and or mastering job is better, or more specifically, if I either don't yet own that album on CD, or the CD version I have sounds mediocre. Plenty of the earliest CDs I own are exactly that, and so too are later ones that suffer from the loudness wars and were mastered with too much compression and/or peak limiting. A boutique mastering job and careful tape source selection will yield a very different and better sounding result.

There are of course instances where that can't really help, for example an already great mastering job on an original 16-bit/44.1kHz recording such as Dire Straits On Every Street. I bought that one on SACD only because I'm a collector, and it rounded out the Dire Straits catalog, I didn't expect it would sound better because the original mastering was already quite good, thats a very nice sounding CD.
But the same mastering could be put onto a standard CD at a fraction of the price and we are being taken for mugs.
 
Why do you believe this - that WiiM Pro / Plus / Amp / Ultra (each with a Quad-core A53 and 512MB RAM) isn't capable as a "server" to transcode DSD to PCM (if that is how WiiM eventually approaches DSD support)??

I don't believe that and I never said that at all, I specifically said the WiiM endpoint can't transcode DSD to PCM on-the-fly like others such as a Raspberry Pi running distros like Volumio, or Moode can. WiiM put that exact endpoint capability on their road map, but as yet haven't developed it. I said nothing at all about the WiiM amp acting as a server, as that wasn't the question being posed. My mention of servers did however note that the transcode can already be done on the server side using LMS, Roon, or DLNA/UPnP servers, though not every DLNA/UPnP implementation will do it/do it well.
 
But the same mastering could be put into a standard CD at a fraction of the price and we are being taken for mugs.

Thats the whole limited collector's edition aspect, and how a reissue label makes money, they are typically only licensing a few thousand copies of any given title, they have to be expensive or they would lose money with such low unit sales.
You can thank the record labels for not ensuring such careful mastering and tape source selection on all standard CD releases, it is they who take us for mugs.
 
Thats the whole limited collector's edition aspect, and how a reissue label makes money, they are typically only licensing a few thousand copies of any given title, they have to be expensive or they would lose money with such low unit sales.
You can thank the record labels for not ensuring such careful mastering and tape source selection on all standard CD releases, it is they who take us for mugs.
The Dark Side Of The Moon SACD hybrid release had different mastering for the CD layer and the SACD layer. That is just blatant discrimination against the CD player owning public 😀
 
The Dark Side Of The Moon SACD hybrid release had different mastering for the CD layer and the SACD layer. That is just blatant discrimination against the CD player owning public 😀
Or to put it another way, every cloud has a silver lining 🤣🤣
 
I have hundreds of movies in ISO format, but hardware players don’t support the format.
Off topic, but I use this hardware player to play my music and movies, including ISO albeit with limited menu support.

It does decode DSD too and works well as a DLNA endpoint.

 
Off topic, but I use this hardware player to play my music and movies, including ISO albeit with limited menu support.

It does decode DSD too and works well as a DLNA endpoint.

That’s interesting. What I’ve done is use MakeMKV to extract the movie file from the ISOs. It doesn’t transcode, so there’s no quality loss. You do lose the DVD menu, and have limited subtitle support.

To play them I use an $80 Roku, which has an excellent media player. Excellent upscaling to 4K.
 
Since no one said they had such an "automatic belief" at all here, I'd question why you think that even exists.
Not every thread needs to go in the direction of "what's best" or someone's supposed fool hardy beliefs about what's best.
It's OK for things to be different, i.e. PCM and DSD, and/or the mastering choices or even the original tape source used for any given reissue, and for any given person to then prefer one over the other, without being attacked for their supposed gullibility, lack of technical knowledge, or alleged "automatic belief" system of what's better.
This "apparent automatic belief" accusation is just another ASR groupthink quip, you sound like a broken record.

Then you haven’t been paying attention.
 
I specifically said the WiiM endpoint can't transcode DSD to PCM on-the-fly like others such as a Raspberry Pi running distros like Volumio, or Moode can.
The WiiM Pro, Plus, and Amp run the same A53 CPU as the Pi 3B and 3B+. Why wouldn't WiiM be able to Transcode In-Flight?? Especially as that is what WiiM has hinted in a few forum posts would be their approach to DSD support... Maybe we're saying the same thing as each other.
As for classification of WiiM as an Endpoint or a Server, LinkPlay has deployed quite the blend of Features usually considered the purview of either/both device classifications.
 
The WiiM Pro, Plus, and Amp run the same A53 CPU as the Pi 3B and 3B+. Why wouldn't WiiM be able to Transcode In-Flight?? Especially as that is what WiiM has hinted in a few forum posts would be their approach to DSD support... Maybe we're saying the same thing as each other.
As for classification of WiiM as an Endpoint or a Server, LinkPlay has deployed quite the blend of Features usually considered the purview of either/both device classifications.
It would be best to ask wiim directly via email to give you concrete answer. There could be it wasn’t used much by many users and waste of their time working on something that only handful use them. Wiim experience on software is top notch but only makes sense to them if majority want them. Let’s go back in time when mini was released it wasn’t bit perfect and many users want that feature so they work on it. RC was also requested by majority so now we have it. It’s pretty much limitless what wiim can do to their devices but only make sense to them if the demand is high. Plex is also high in demand so it’s in progress. Separate left and right peq was high in demand so does usb out.
 
Maybe we're saying the same thing as each other.

Perhaps, the post I was answering specifically questioned the as yet undeveloped feature found on the product road map, very clearly that is transcoding on-the-fly by the endpoint, and the WiiM devices can't currently do that. I wasn't saying the WiiM devices aren't ultimately capable, though I do suspect the Mini model is probably lacking the necessary available system resources.

As for classification of WiiM as an Endpoint or a Server, LinkPlay has deployed quite the blend of Features usually considered the purview of either/both device classifications.

Not in the context of what were are talking about here though, so far only the WiiM Amp can act as a server, the Mini, Pro/Plus are only endpoints from the perspective of what the post I was responding to was questioning, that being the product road map feature of endpoint transcoding on-the-fly. As I stated above, I hadn't made any mention at all of the WiiM Amp, or the WiiM Amp as server and whether that could be made to do the transcode, you did. The question I was answering did not involve that kind of setup, he wanted to know if the forthcoming Ultra model (this is a thread about the Ultra) could play native DSD due to having a compatible DAC chip, or transcode DSD on-the-fly via USB output.

There could be it wasn’t used much by many users and waste of their time working on something that only handful use them.

Well no, it was never used by any users at all because it was never actually supported, only placed on the product road map at some point nearly 2 years ago. WiiM wouldn't have bothered (wasted their time) adding it to the road map had there been only some tiny handful of requests for this feature, however I do agree that DSD anything is a niche use case and since this is easily handled server-side by LMS, Roon, and DLNA/UPnP servers, it is effectively a non-issue for most (including me as I use LMS). That said, I was simply answering a question posed by another member here, not making some big important use case, or demanding this feature be added.

Since this is a thread about the WiiM Ultra, let's just let this discussion go now. I've adequately explained myself in terms of the answer I provided to the original question posed, there's no need for any more needling about it. That original question was confusing because it conflated the use of a DSD-capable DAC chipset with actual WiiM firmware compatibility, not to mention it referenced use of the USB output, which would of course bypass that DAC chip altogether.
 
You’d have lost then ;)

See this from the q&a spreadsheet link in the opening comment:

Please check the Phono Stage specifications below:
Gain: 41dB MM / 59dB MC
MM: THD+N -75dB,SNR 76dB@5mV;
MC: THD+N -58dB,SNR 56dB@0.5mV
RIAA accuracy: < ±0.5dB / 20Hz - 20kHz
Congratulations, looks like another exciting product from WiiM.

Pardon my old lazy brain, but could you provide the specifications in another format? The gain for both MM and MC (wow!) looks lovely.

Would be nice to see the input impedance, capacitance (for MM) and sensitivity for both the MM and MC (and at what voltages, presumably at 0.5mV out?). Input overload margins if any?

Congratulations again, hoping to jump from the Pro Plus.

EDIT: Just checked around and it seems like Authorized Retailers in Switzerland is dating the arrival for 26th of August 2024. Does anyone have dates around the region (Germany/France, etc). Thanks in advance
 
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