Meet WiiM Ultra - The Digital Hub for Your Music

[bherren]

Not true. The AKM and ESS DACs which WiiM has chosen for the Pro Plus, Amp, Ultra have direct DSD Play capabilities; as do numerous other DACs (standalone or as components of Audio Equipment). There is no need / benefit to having a Server component Transcode DSD when that end-consumer DAC can directly receive and play the original DSD Audio.
The question is whether WiiM devices need to Transcode DSD to PCM in order to perform DSP (EQ/Volume), especially in a Transport-only role.

They most certainly do

 

[Tom Schultz]

I don't disagree that this is an acceptable solution, batch or play time conversion, but I'm confused why s3igell is comparing a feature his server has.
I don't know if the "syn"ology NAS can transcode, serve, or play DSD files

I personally use LMS to handle DSD transcoding, although my DAC could otherwise decode them if the WiiM handled them accordingly.

Agree, whether a NAS could transcode DSD is not important with the Ultra. It handles that itself it seems.

A Synology NAS for sure can serve DSD via DLNA, as long as the installed DLNA server is capable of it. I use Minimserver on a Synology and it does it nicely,

As DSD-handling over DLNA seems not to be forthcoming for now, I wonder how SMB shares will be handled. Well, I suppose WiiM will take care of making it useable, although DLNA for sure provides a better experience for browsing DSD files than moving through folders.

 

[s3igell]

They most certainly do

One assumes that is a response to specifically:

The question is whether WiiM devices need to Transcode DSD to PCM in order to perform DSP (EQ/Volume), especially in a Transport-only role.

That would seem true, but only because to date WiiM's Dev Team appears to have implemented all DSP functions within the PCM data stream processing flow. But the question whether DSP functions can be performed on a DSD data stream remains. WiiM Dev Team may choose to tackle the process, or may leverage the existing PCM codebase by inserting DSD Transcoding instead.
I'd prefer straight DSD Play support - at least as a starting point.

 

[slartibartfast]

One assumes that is a response to specifically:

That would seem true, but only because to date WiiM's Dev Team appears to have implemented all DSP functions within the PCM data stream processing flow. But the question whether DSP functions can be performed on a DSD data stream remains. WiiM Dev Team may choose to tackle the process, or may leverage the existing PCM codebase by inserting DSD Transcoding instead.
I'd prefer straight DSD Play support - at least as a starting point.

I think native DSD needs to be bitperfect or it doesn't play. For the WiiM amp that would mean full volume playback.

 

[s3igell]

Your NAS is a server, the WiiM is a player/renderer. What are you currently using as a player?

Currently using USB Data feeding DSD into a Yamaha A-S801 Integrated Amp with ESS 9007 DAC chip. And DSD into Geshelli JNOG2 Sparkos with AKM4499 DAC chipset.
Would like to be able to compare that to DSD played by WiiM Pro Plus, and maybe eventually upgrade to Ultra that could play DSD or feed either of the above Endpoints.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

Not true. The AKM and ESS DACs which WiiM has chosen for the Pro Plus, Amp, Ultra have direct DSD Play capabilities; as do numerous other DACs (standalone or as components of Audio Equipment). There is no need / benefit to having a Server component Transcode DSD when that end-consumer DAC can directly receive and play the original DSD Audio.
The question is whether WiiM devices need to Transcode DSD to PCM in order to perform DSP (EQ/Volume), especially in a Transport-only role.

No current Wiim device supports native DSD playback. It will always be transcoded to PCM before hitting the DAC or any DSP stuff. Whilst the DAC chips can nativley handle DSD, in Wiims implementation they have chosen a PCM path much like BluOS does and its limited to 192/24. This may change over time.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

I think native DSD needs to be bitperfect or it doesn't play. For the WiiM amp that would mean full volume playback.

Surely this isn't the case?
While I do need to feed bit perfect DSD to my Marantz AVR or SMSL DAC for native playback, I still have volume control of the analog output.

 

[slartibartfast]

Surely this isn't the case?
While I do need to feed bit perfect DSD to my Marantz AVR or SMSL DAC for native playback, I still have volume control of the analog output.

Not sure. I know I can't control the volume of dsf files using the digital volume control in LMS if I use native DSD playback.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Not sure. I know I can't control the volume of dsf files using the digital volume control in LMS if I use native DSD playback.

Yes, this is certainly true.
The DSD must arrive to the device unaltered, but once received the device will decode and can manipulate the stream with DSP etc.

The question, and whether it makes any difference to the output, is whether the WiiM will handle the DSD decoding in software or using the DAC capabilities.

I expect that as there are using several different DACs across the range (TI, ESS, AKM) it would be pragmatic to do this in software to support multiple models.

From my perspective I don't care and all this would mean is that I could toggle the LMS decoding off for any WiiM models supporting DSD decoding (and probably not notice any difference?)
I don't have a homogenous system using only WiiM products so a universal server based solution like LMS fits best and whether WiiM supports DSD won't change my life.

 

[dtc]

Surely this isn't the case?
While I do need to feed bit perfect DSD to my Marantz AVR or SMSL DAC for native playback, I still have volume control of the analog output.

If the DAC in the Wiim decodes the DSD and send its out over the analog output, then there maybe volume control, just like you currently have. But the volume control also may not work on that analog signal. It depends on where the volume control is applied in the signal path. I have not seen any statement from Wiim that they will do the DSD to analog conversion, although I may have missed it.

What I understand is the original DSD signal will be passed still in DSD form to the usb output. In that case there would be no volume control, since the unaltered DSD signal is being sent to the usb. Changing the volume of a DSD signal is basically not doable like is done for PCM.

Some players ensure that the volume control is not applied to the original DSD signals, but in other cases the volume control needs to be set to 100% to guarantee that no unexpected changes are made to the DSD bits. Whether the volume control needs to be set to 100% depends on Wiim's implementation.

All of this needs to be confirmed by Wiim.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Ok, I had assumed WiiM would be working on full support for DSD through any available output. Analog, digital, or network.

I think It is already possible to get the WiiM to pass through DSD to a digital output by sending it as DOP and disabling volume control and eq.

 

[druskys]

Could you use the sub out with a y splitter, connect each end to two inputs on an old minidsp, and use minidsp for sub management for dual subs? Then, could the WiiM still control the PEQ for the mains? Sorry, I’m new to dual subs and subs management generally so this may be a dumb question… just trying to brainstorm the best way to use dual subs with my wiim (just got a second sub, but haven’t started trying to integrate yet). I currently have the amp but am looking at getting the ultra. Thanks!

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Couldn't you just connect the two subs directly using the Y cable?
I don't understand what the Mini DSP would be doing here, other than possibly adding some delay, not that I've ever used one.
I'm fairly certain that the two sub outs on my AVR carry an identical signal.

 

[druskys]

Couldn't you just connect the two subs directly using the Y cable?
I don't understand what the Mini DSP would be doing here, other than possibly adding some delay, not that I've ever used one.
I fairly certain that the two sub outs on my AVR carry an identical signal.

You’re probably right and I’m probably overthinking it. Was thinking it might be beneficial to have control over eqp for each sub (rather than it being the same for both). I’m likely setting up my duals right next to my mains, so timing should be the same for each anyways.

 

[harkpabst]

You’re probably right and I’m probably overthinking it. Was thinking it might be beneficial to have control over eqp for each sub (rather than it being the same for both). I’m likely setting up my duals right next to my mains, so timing should be the same for each anyways.

Right. As long as your subs are set up symmetrically with respect to the mains (and hopefully all speakers are set up symmetrically around your MLP) the options offered by WiiM should be all you need.

There will only be a signal on the Ultra's sub out if the subwoofer option is enabled in the WiiM Home app, so high pass and low pass filtering is already applied. You could in theory add some more processing using the MiniDSP, but you can't take away or modify the filtering.

Most definitely not worth a try, you should be good with what you get out of the box.

 

[Allanr]

In the extra.unit. does the analogue input signal go straight to the output and miss the digital dac stage

 

[Brantome]

In the extra.unit. does the analogue input signal go straight to the output and miss the digital dac stage

No. Volume control, eq etc are in the digital domain

 

[gvera]

Yep, delayed.
Just received an e-mail from Crutchfield, ETA of the Ultra changed from 7/5/2024 to 08/12/2024
I cancelled my preorder.

 

[Brantome]

Yep, delayed.
Just received an e-mail from Crutchfield, ETA of the Ultra changed from 7/5/2024 to 08/12/2024
I cancelled my preorder.

Always thought that Crutchfield ETA was optimistic…

 

[Mr Ee]

Yep, delayed.
Just received an e-mail from Crutchfield, ETA of the Ultra changed from 7/5/2024 to 08/12/2024
I cancelled my preorder.

lol, I didn't really read the first date properly, but read the second as mid-December and thought no wonder you cancelled!
Still, it's only another 5 weeks or so...