Meet WiiM Ultra - The Digital Hub for Your Music

[Wiimer]

It's not a brick wall, it will either be 12db or 24db / octave slope.

I presume the wiims offer options of 12/24?

So far only 24.

 

[Brantome]

A question for anyone who has (a) an Ultra, (b) an external DAC, and (c) a subwoofer.

Have you managed to output to L&R over your DAC and subwoofer from the Ultra’s dub out, at the same time?

If so, was it easy, could you still use full bass management, PEQ, etc.?

Thank you.

How are you connecting to your external dac? Not sure if WiiM have the sub enabled yet if usb out is being used, I think they said they’d look into that.

 

[onlyoneme]

@rccarguy
No, it's fixed 24 dB/Oct.

 

[rccarguy]

@rccarguy
No, it's fixed 24 dB/Oct.

I have a AV processor, I use 12dB for speakers, 24 for the sub. I believe that is the recommended settings

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

How are you connecting to your external dac? Not sure if WiiM have the sub enabled yet if usb out is being used, I think they said they’d look into that.

I don’t have an Ultra yet.

The ‘plan’ (possibility) is rca out to sub, optical out to balanced DAC, so I can use the balanced outs on the DAC to connect to the balanced ins on an amp, but obviously I’m wanting to maintain exactly the same functionality as if I used rca outs for L&R: volume control on the Ultra, bass management works the same, PEQ works the same, etc., etc.

 

[Brantome]

I don’t have an Ultra yet.

The ‘plan’ (possibility) is rca out to sub, optical out to balanced DAC, so I can use the balanced outs on the DAC to connect to the balanced ins on an amp, but obviously I’m wanting to maintain exactly the same functionality as if I used rca outs for L&R: volume control on the Ultra, bass management works the same, PEQ works the same, etc., etc.

Personally I don’t think either of those would be an issue.

 

[onlyoneme]

@Steve Woodhouse
It works this way as long as you use the spdif output.

 

[Brantome]

@Steve Woodhouse
It works this way as long as you use the spdif output.

Doesn’t it work for analog outs too, or am I mistaken?

 

[onlyoneme]

Doesn’t it work for analog outs too, or am I mistaken?

For analogs as well, I meant that USB audio is excluded currently.

 

[SeeTeeShock]

So.. is anybody going to pop the hood of their Ultra soon?

Chinese DAC manufacturers usually proudly show the insides of their products - or at least parts of it

Haven't they done so already with this? Albeit not very detailed.

 

[onlyoneme]

Looks familiar as I couldn't resist to look inside myself.

 

[pieterv1]

Looks familiar as I couldn't resist to look inside myself.

And you didn't take a few snaps?

 

[onlyoneme]

I forgot to do that

 

[SeeTeeShock]

Come on WiiM. Surely that's not the best VU you can manage. How about a photo realistic pair scaled to fit. They don't have to fill the screen. Preferably, a choice.

Also, any chance of a Channel Mode parameter alongside the Balance control, to select between STEREO, REVERSE, LEFT, RIGHT, MONO/MIX for those awkward recordings? Like some vintage amps:-

 

[MKUltra]

Which input/output latency do you want to know?

I'd use toslink, but I guess it might be the same regardless of input/output... but dependent on frequency and bitness.

My more precise (well, expanded) question is "can you use this for general computer sound output without any streaming and casting". I think I read somewhere that a certain WiiM device - I don't know which one - had 150+ ms latency before a firmware update. You can't quite watch youtube stuff or play computer games if sound is heavily delayed.

 

[Brantome]

Come on WiiM. Surely that's not the best VU you can manage. How about a photo realistic pair scaled to fit. They don't have to fill the screen. Preferably, a choice.

Submit a feature request ticket as I have…

Also, any chance of a Channel Mode parameter alongside the Balance control, to select between STEREO, REVERSE, LEFT, RIGHT, MONO/MIX for those awkward recordings? Like some vintage amps:-

Those, apart from reverse, are already in the app

 

[harkpabst]

I have a AV processor, I use 12dB for speakers, 24 for the sub. I believe that is the recommended settings

Some people do recommend this setup, but it stems from a severe misconception.

Here's how this "theory" came to live:

"The subwoofer's high pass filtered output and the main speakers high pass filtered output should have the same acoustic slope, to some up to a flat response."
This is actually correct.

"The subwoofer's output needs a steep electrical low pass filter, so it cannot be located and a 4th order filter is good at that."
Again, nothing wrong with that.

"A closed box has a natural roll-off of 12 dB/octave already, so we just need to add an electrical 2nd order high pass filter with the same crossover frequency as the speaker's -3 dB point to end up with 24 dB/octave, just as the sub."
This is where it all went wrong:

• Not all main speakers are of the closed box type. Ported speakers have a natural roll-of of 24 dB/octave instead, so what now?
• Whoever said that we should use the main speakers down to their -3 dB point? It's a myth in itself that this was the only way to smoothly integrate a sub, back from the times when we couldn't manipulate delay and crossover frequencies as easy as.we can now. In reality, at least all 2-way and full range designs benefit heavily from crossing over much higher than what their theoretical bass extension is.
• The -3 dB point given by the manufacturer (if even mentioned) is provided for unechoic environments, not for the speaker in a listening room. In a real room, bass will extend quite a bit lower and there will no longer be a a nice and clean 12 dB/octave roll-off.

In reality and with subwoofer management as flexible as provided by WiiM it's a much better solution to keep the crossover frequency just high enough from the main speakers lower limit and apply a steep (read: 4th order) high pass filter, so that the natural roll-off will not really get in the way.

The crossover frequency must OTOH still be low enough to avoid frequencies our hearing might be be able to localize (and must not be higher than what the sub can play cleanly, of course). In practice - depending on mains and subs and speaker placement - this often leads to usable crossover frequencies between 60 Hz (with bigger mains) and 120 Hz. With stero subs, even higher values can lead to better results.

It's still not impossible that under very, very specific conditions asymmetrical filters and even non-matching crossover frequencies for HP and LP can be advantageous. However, these are really rare cases and usually the setup options provided are all you need.

Just don't even try to "match" your main speakers -3 dB point. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Come on WiiM. Surely that's not the best VU you can manage. How about a photo realistic pair scaled to fit. They don't have to fill the screen. Preferably, a choice.

Absolutely. A nice yellow-orange glow.

 

[Wiimer]

I'd use toslink, but I guess it might be the same regardless of input/output... but dependent on frequency and bitness.

My more precise (well, expanded) question is "can you use this for general computer sound output without any streaming and casting". I think I read somewhere that a certain WiiM device - I don't know which one - had 150+ ms latency before a firmware update. You can't quite watch youtube stuff or play computer games if sound is heavily delayed.

The only test I have done is Bluetooth latency.
Presumably all WiiM devices have some delay due to DSP, but I do not know the exact amount of delay.

I think I can take a simple measurement by the following route.
Win PC[Youtube] >> (HDMI) >> TV >> (Optical) >> WiiM Ultra
or
TV[YouTube] >> (Optical) >> WiiM Ultra

I will test this after tomorrow, when I have time.
(Or maybe another member can do it.)


Edit:
I should add that as long as I played Youtube on my TV via HDMI or Optical input, I did not subjectively notice any delay. However, it is conceivable that latency could be an issue with some games. I don't play video games so I don't know about that.

 

[Jls]

I'd use toslink, but I guess it might be the same regardless of input/output... but dependent on frequency and bitness.

My more precise (well, expanded) question is "can you use this for general computer sound output without any streaming and casting". I think I read somewhere that a certain WiiM device - I don't know which one - had 150+ ms latency before a firmware update. You can't quite watch youtube stuff or play computer games if sound is heavily delayed.

TVs have adjustments for lip synch. Can they compensate for lags in audio gear? My LG documentation strongly suggests it can.